NSFW-S2-01: Season 2 Begins with Sean Stone!

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Matthew Holliday: Welcome to the not safe for work photography podcast, where we explore the art and business of erotic photography. We bring you in depth interviews with photographers and models who push the boundaries of sexual expression through their work. We'll delve into their creative processes, the challenges they face and the ways they're shaping the industry.

Whether you're a photographer or model looking to expand your portfolio or simply a fan of erotic art, this is the podcast for you. So join us as we journey into the sensual side of photography and discover the beauty, intimacy, and empowerment that comes with it. Today, we're interviewing Sean Stone.

Sean is an experienced figure model and adult performer, as well as an artistic nude photographer. How are you doing today, Sean?

Sean Stone: Hi there, doing pretty good.

Matthew Holliday: Is phenomenal. I'm using iConcepts Connected Us, recommending Sean reach out. I appreciate the referral. This is our first podcast back in season two, after taking a long mental health break, and we are going to be discussing male models and the conservative perspective on nudity in the United States.

I debated putting a bunch of Zoolander references throughout this. [00:01:00] And decided against it. All right. So I think it's usually best to start at the beginning, Sean. Why did you become a model?

Sean Stone: Well, originally, I just wanted to make a little bit of money. And my modeling was mostly focused on catalog and fashion, but it was small time things like, you know, some JC Penney stuff or you know, just various retailers. General retailers. So, and new being a nude model was never really something that I was looking to do.

I mean, it's something that is a male, you know, you fantasize about but I was shooting with one particular photographer and he said to me, he goes, you know, you have a, you look like you have a really good physique. Would you mind doing a nude shoot? And I said, sure, I'd try doing an issue. So we arranged time and he came over and [00:02:00] we did the shoot in my house in the basement and he had me do different poses.

It was. Knowing what I know now, it was very amateur, the way the photography was done, and it was probably for his own enjoyment, but I sort of enjoyed the freedom of what I was doing, and he said to me, he goes, you know, you're rather well endowed, you should consider doing, like, adult work, and I have some people that I know that I could And You know, point your way if you'd like to try that.

And I was like, I don't know about that, you know, so gave it a few months and came back to him. I said, you know, I might be willing to try something. Why not? I like to, you know, expand myself and try new things. So he put me in touch with a few people. And I shot with a couple videographer, a couple of people producing some amateur films and [00:03:00] Then I got connected with a female adult performer and she said, well, you know, we as females tend to have a few males that we prefer to only work with from a safety perspective.

And I said, okay, she said, I really like you and I'd like to see if you'd be willing to work together. I said, sure. So we did some shoots. We did. Two or three different shoots with different photographers. And then she said she had done work with Wasteland Productions, which is a BDSM adult website.

She said, would you consider doing a shoot with me there? So I said, sure, you know so I went there, shot with them. They were, it was a very different experience for me. And in a, in a positive way, they were very easy to work with very friendly. It was strange having I had a little bit of a difficult time at first having, you know, eight, ten people on set watching you, which is strange for, you know, [00:04:00] for me to say that because I am an exhibitionist.

And, you know, you'd think that would turn me on more. It's one thing when you're, yeah, exactly. Right. It's one thing when you're. On the set and you are you know, you're having a 60 minute period where you're, you know, you're having sex or you're doing things and then it's over with and you're out. But this wasn't the case.

I mean, they're spending five, six hours on a shoot, trying to get every angle, right. Trying to redo shoots, trying to take photographs, trying to do video. I mean, you're exhausted. I mean, you get to as a male trying to keep yourself, you know, In performance mode is definitely difficult. So.

Matthew Holliday: So I have, I have followups. I have one followup just on the whole concept of you'd think it'd be super hot. I was at mega glam a couple months ago. And that one's interesting. There's, you know, like something like 40 [00:05:00] photographers and like 30 models running around. And the models are usually running around semi nude or nude because they're, you know, trying to bounce from photographer to photographer and trying to change.

And if you had just thought about that, you'd be like, this would be the hottest thing in the entire world. Right. And. It's not, it's, it's not sexy at all.

Sean Stone: no, it's in fact, you have to work hard to, to feel sexy in the situations. And and there was actually, there was an adult shoot that I did with Ashley fires. Called what was the name of that? Shoot. Honey, I shagged a plumber. So yeah, it was, it was cliche on purpose because what they had is they had somebody from a London newspaper there.

And. That person wanted to sort of see the adult side of the industry. So they made an adult movie within an adult movie. So it was sort of, it was, it was, it was an [00:06:00] interesting concept. Ashley and I had a great time. She has a lot of fun to work with very down to earth. But I could not get hard. I mean, it was, I was having such a difficult time because there was so much going on.

There was, I mean, my favorite part of that, my, you know, one of the questions you asked me was what was my favorite. Scene or my favorite shoot that I've ever done. That wasn't my favorite shoot, but it was definitely one of my favorite films and because we had this food fight scene and it was so much fun shooting the food fight, I mean, we're like, you know, they're like blueberries and strawberries and whipped cream and pudding and you name it.

I mean, cake, we were just making a mess of each other and it was just, it was. It was very erotic and it was a lot of fun at the same time. But then we go from that and we go down to the, to the dungeon and we're playing and that's where we're supposed to really get it on. And, you know, I'm supposed to have a cum shot.

Well, I be [00:07:00] the dungeon doesn't turn me on at all. I am not somebody that's into BDSM. So I've always had a difficult time doing that side of adult work, but I did my best. What, what we ended up doing is. Her husband was there and he ended up coming down just him and her and he shot the film while the rest of the crew stayed upstairs.

I'm like, I just, it's too many people. I just couldn't, you know, and then everything went fine, but it was it was weird. I mean, it was, you know, weird and fun all at the same time. So

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. There's a, I think I mentioned this before on the podcast, but I do remember seeing kind of a documentary style thing where they brought three guys in who thought they could do porn and were like, here you go, like, here's the, here's the model, like go for it. And not a single one of them could complete the assignment.

Shall we say,

Sean Stone: They're very, you know, they're very the amateur stuff, it's easy to get turned on, you know, it's

Matthew Holliday: usually like one, one cameraman or

Sean Stone: cameraman, it's one on one. You have more input as to [00:08:00] how it's supposed to go, how it should go. I've done a lot of amateur work and I had a lot of fun doing it. There was. But, but, but it's, it's, it's different, you know, it really is when you've got a full production scale thing going, if there's nothing, there's nothing erotic about it, you know, it just, always cracks me up.

And, you know, I tell people that I'm into adult, you know, that I've done a lot of adult work and like, Oh, that must've been so much fun. I'm like, yeah, parts of it were fine. But it is not what you fantasize about, you know, you look at a film and you're watching 45 minutes of people, you know, having sex and you're like, Oh, yeah, I want to do that, you know, but they spent six to eight hours planning all that out, playing a multiple different, you know, Ways.

And by the end of it, you know, you're sore, you're not turned on, you're doing everything you can to try and keep the mood going a little bit. So, or at least, you know, keep the chemistry going on on film. [00:09:00] So, but in chemistry goes a long way. If you can have chemistry with the people that you're working with, you know, both as a model slash.

You know, the model and the photographer and, or models and models, it shows on film when you don't have the, when you don't have the chemistry, you can totally tell it, you know, or when people don't have the chemistry. So, you know, that, that isn't going to sell, you know, 

Matthew Holliday: these days, do you get more fashion, nude or erotic work?

Yeah 

Sean Stone: nude neurotic, I don't do fashion anymore. So, and most of my concentration, at least in the last few years has been on. Nude artistic just because I like to push the envelope of what is art and what is porn. So you know, that's, I think the human body is a beautiful thing, especially when it's in sort of intimate mode.

So [00:10:00] adding different light. And the shadow variables to that, you know, that I can make it very interesting. So,

Matthew Holliday: I saw I've seen a couple of people that are really kind of trying to push the limits on that line between nude and erotic art, especially with men. That have been very interesting you know, erect erect cocks and leakage and stuff like that. But shot, you know, chiaroscuro black and white, strong shadows, stuff like that.

Very

Sean Stone: And I've done a lot of I've done a lot of that. I think I find it. I find it difficult sometimes working with some photographers because you can, you can tell pretty quickly when you start working with a photographer, whether they're doing it because they want to show the artistic side of things or whether they want to do it because it just turns them on to be a photographer shooting a nude scene. You know, it's. I, if I get into, if [00:11:00] I get into a a scene and and I'm talking just stills, but if I get into a situation where, you know, I'm, I agree to work with a photographer, I go and I start shooting with him. And I often will ask, you know, how's this looking, can I see, you know, see it on the camera and I look at it and the lighting is terrible or the, or the, the poses are horrible or whatever.

Then I get a little. Kind of antsy. I just, I'm like, well, I just want to go, you know, I want to hurry this, I want to hurry the shoot up and get out of here because he's not really going to do anything professional with this. So but, but then you, you know, on the flip side, you have some photographers who you go in and you think it's going to be more amateur and you look at it and it's like, Wow, this is just incredible.

I can't believe that's my body that looks like that, you know, but yeah, I mean, I nowadays I won't work with a photographer unless I see other work that they've done. I wish that I could work with more female photographers. There are so many male [00:12:00] photographers out there who do a good job. Don't get me wrong, but. I would love to see a female's artistic perspective on the male body and be able to do more, you know, with them. Not that I have any problem working with my male photographers. I love them. They're fantastic. Most of them are extremely professional, but, you know, I don't know, just a thought,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I've met a couple of female photographers. But I'm just, I'm thinking back at like mega glam is the most recent.

Sean Stone: males or do they

Matthew Holliday: I don't know. There's only one female photographer there that I saw, I think. And I was at a, a much more amateur kind of shootout style and there was only one female photographer there too, but it was all female models.

Sean Stone: Mm hmm. Yeah, that's, that's the problem. I mean, it's just, it's, and it's not that I'm going for, you know, heterosexual perspectives or anything like that, but,

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Sean Stone: It's more just.[00:13:00] I think there's a lot of very artistically creative females, artists photographers out there. And I just would love to see their perspective on the male body.

You know, they're going to see a man in a different way than a man is going to see a man. So it's, and granted, almost all the photographers I've worked with that are male. We're gay. So they're going to have, they are even going to have a different perspective than maybe a straight male might, you know, might see a guy in on lens.

So I don't know. It's it's it'd be interesting to see, you know, both sides of the coin. So.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I would actually, I would be super curious. I would love to see a comparison of, you know, do male photographers tend to focus on like muscles and

Sean Stone: Right. Absolutely.

Matthew Holliday: lighting, you know, showing off definition and

Sean Stone: I will say if there is a female photographer out there who would be interested in shooting [00:14:00] me so I could see what their perspective would be, I'd be willing to do that for free just because I want to, you know, I want to be part of that artistic endeavor. So, but

Matthew Holliday: all right. What is the most common shoot idea you get proposed? I'm looking at your, looking at your Instagram. I imagine it's Rob Lee body scapes.

Sean Stone: body scapes are definitely, well, It's not that it's requested most of the time, it's that the one or two photographers who I work with most, who I love the work of, tend to be more bodyscapes. There is a photo of me, if you're looking at my Instagram, about halfway down that you would see me wearing jeans, and I'm sitting in a chair.

That was a photographer who he wasn't really interested in doing body scapes. He was more just trying to get different poses different. He did focus on sex a little bit. He had [00:15:00] me come for him. We also did some shoots outside. I love doing outdoor shoots, but he was one of the few that, you know, don't do, don't really do body scapes.

But I still like, you know, the lighting of that particular shot. And

Matthew Holliday: Is it in a motel room? Yeah. Yeah.

Sean Stone: that wasn't a motel room yet. And I've done some cool motel room shoots too. I mean, there was one who I shot with one who I shot with, with a female. And I don't see that I have any in my Instagram that shoot, but it was, he did a really good job of using natural light rather than trying to use different flashes and.

Oh, actually, there is one shot. So all the way at the bottom of my Instagram, you can see my, there's like a white light skinned female with some like tattoo. She had like a tattoo on her and [00:16:00] you can kind of see my hands a little bit in the shot. That was a lot of, that was, that just the work that came out of that one was gorgeous.

And I'd love to work with him again, his name. I think he goes by Manji. But I haven't heard from him in years. So,

Matthew Holliday: know,

Sean Stone: and you can see also actually next to that next to that shot, there's a picture of myself with somebody doing makeup on me.

Matthew Holliday: yeah,

Sean Stone: that is actually an ex girlfriend of mine. She's an artist, a makeup artist. And I loved doing the the body painting and do that is actually a shoot that I'd really like to do more of his body painting creative expression with the body painting that particular shoot.

She did this whole design of me and I was inside of an eggshell that she had made out of plaster and I was like coming out of the eggshell and it was sort of the concept. It was her concept, but it was because I am choosing [00:17:00] to sort of open myself up to the world and be different doing my art, doing my, you know, my modeling and my creativity with it.

And she wanted to kind of portray that. In the in artistic style. So

Matthew Holliday: yeah, no, that's really cool. Do you frequently get asked to work with other models?

I've seen in your Instagram, it looks like it's, you've occasionally worked with some female models and very rarely with another male model.

Sean Stone: the chemistry has to be right between me and another model to work. There was one male model that I really enjoyed working with up in Vermont with Doc. Right. We just we created some really cool art together. I have had some bad experiences working with males. Male models because they have come on too strong or they've seen something there between the two of us that wasn't there, you know, so [00:18:00] there was one guy who sort of stalked me a little bit, so, but actually he stalked me a lot, but.

You know, I just, I don't like being put in a situation where I'm going to be uncomfortable and that's really, that's the only reason I haven't done much work with some adult, some adult males. I have to find them attractive. I have to which doesn't mean they have to be fit or anything, but you know.

I don't know. It's, I'm very picky about who I do, who I model with both males and females, to be honest. So there are a few females who I've worked with regularly and I really enjoy working with them because they're professional. They they. Are more interested in making sure that we get a good shoot together, Jen, what was, what is her name?

I've done a lot.

Matthew Holliday: I think I saw her a couple of times in the Instagram.

Sean Stone: Yeah. I'm trying to remember her name. Jen.

Matthew Holliday: Oh, what the fuck, Jen?

Sean Stone: Yes, that's her. [00:19:00] Jennifer Evie. Phenomenal to work with. I've worked with her multiple times. I've always had a lot of fun with her. She is, she is also very good at working with me to, you know, provide the right with me. Provide the right feel within the, within the shoot. And I have really good chemistry with her, which helps. So, you know, it shows

Matthew Holliday: I find. So the interesting thing that I'm thinking of here is if somebody had an idea for a shoot that involved multiple models and they reached out to you it sounds like you would not be interested in doing it if they were just going to throw you in another model together. So what.

Sean Stone: not if it's not well thought out. Yes. If they think it out and they say, look, here's what, and I'm not saying that poses have to be thought out and everything else, but you know, what is your intention? What is your theme? Are you just trying to show two guys together playing around? I'm not really interested in that.

If you're trying to show dynamics of some type [00:20:00] between. To people that I would be more interested in. I mean, to be snobby, but, but I've done enough. I've done enough art to. be picky about the art that I am part of. So it's I actually did a, I did a recent, I, I don't know, about a year ago, I did a shoot with with my wife. And that was different for her because she had never modeled before. And we had a great time. Again, we were working with Doc Wright up in Vermont, who I've done a lot of work with. And I knew working with him that it would be professional with her and everything.

So and afterwards we've done a couple of shoots on our own in my studio down in the basement. So, and it's, it's just cool that, you know, what you can do if you have the right people, the right chemistry, but I'm not, no, I'm not opposed to doing group work. In fact, I, some of my favorite work that I've done has been with two, three, four [00:21:00] people.

So.

Matthew Holliday: So it sounds like given that you're, you have the ability to kind of decline work. This probably isn't a full time job for you.

Sean Stone: No, no, I'm, I'm in it full time. So,

Matthew Holliday: Gosh. Yeah. And I talked a little bit about that before. I understand that Tim and full time it. And I don't know, I don't know that I, if I, if I, even if I really tried, I don't think I could turn this into a career.

Sean Stone: No, I mean, as a model, I definitely couldn't, I, I make very little money doing it as a model or even as a photographer. It's purely my enjoyment of the art of the human body. So I write as well. So I'm hoping that the writing can be a full time gig someday, but you know, it's, I'm not holding my breath.

So, you know,

I mean, I spend, you know, Years, you know, months or years working on a book. I mean, I deserve the right to brag about it. So,

Matthew Holliday: 100%. If somebody wanted, if somebody was was a [00:22:00] male presenting human and they thought they really wanted to do a nude and erotic work, how would you recommend they get started?

Sean Stone: Hmm. That's tricky. My advice would be browse around Instagram or any social media or photography site. Look for Artwork that you like and then reach out to that photographer and say, Hey, would you be willing to shoot me? I'd be willing to do it as TFP, which is time for prints. So they'll shoot you.

You get copies of everything that they're doing and they get free modeling. And it gives you the experience of, you know, trying it out. They don't feel like they're losing any money and it helps them grow as an artist and helps you grow as a model. So. That's what I've done a lot of in the past. I still do it from time to time. But yeah, that's, that would be my, my advice, you know, seek out, look for, look for the photos and the work that's out there that you like, and [00:23:00] then reach out to that photographer. And, you know, you might not, you might reach out to 10, 15 photographers and they don't get back to you, but there might be that one that will say, Hey, yeah, let's give it a shot. So,

Matthew Holliday: What should you expect from the photographer? You mentioned you'd had some awkward interactions with photographers. Are there any red flags that they should watch out for that?

Sean Stone: If you're a photographer. I mean, you really just kind of have to trust your instincts. If you're in a shoot and you feel uncomfortable, then that's a red flag. You should, I mean, you're going to feel a little uncomfortable if you've never shot nude before, but most of the photographers I've worked with that are professional, you know, you'll see them focusing on the lighting.

They might use the light meter, trying to make sure that they're getting the flash aligned, or they might move the flashes around or, they'll be concentrating looking through their camera to, you know, see if they're getting the right look and they'll ask you to take a different pose. A lot of photographers asked me to kind of move through poses.

It's [00:24:00] if, if they're reaching out to touch you, it's, I've never had a problem with a photographer touching me, but if they're touching me, you know, in a way that. You wouldn't expect to move your arm or move your leg, you know, then, you know, it's something that I would be like, well, you know, it's, I'm not really here for that, but unless I am,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah,

Sean Stone: yeah, so, but yeah, that's, I mean, you just trust your instincts.

That's, you know, what, what it boils down to. So,

Matthew Holliday: you had mentioned something about having some trouble with male models versus female models. I find that interesting given I've definitely heard concerns from female models about working with male models, and it's really interesting to hear you kind of echo some of those same things.

Sean Stone: yeah, it's, I mean. I tend to easily attract men. Maybe it's my looks, [00:25:00] maybe it's my demeanor. I don't know. But and I, I have. No problems working with men. I enjoy working with with, you know, male photographers and male models, but there have been a couple who thought that there was more between us than just artistic collaboration both models and photographers There's one photographer in particular I'm thinking of and he to this day tries to reach me on Facebook or tries to reach me on Instagram.

I mean, I'm constantly blocking him. He'll create a new profile just to try and reach me again. So, I mean, he's very persistent. I've blocked him, you know, on my phone from texting me, which is sad because I, I sort of liked the work that we did initially, but You know, he pushes it to, he pushed it to a whole new level where he just would not let me be, you know, so, I mean, if I want a relationship with somebody, I'll reach out to them, [00:26:00] you know, so not to mention I'm married

Matthew Holliday: All right. Well, I think we're, I think it's time to pivot over to our second topic here. US views on nudity. When we spoke on Instagram before recording, you said you wanted to talk about the quote, conservative perspective of our country on nudity. And I believe the conservative you mean there is the small C conservative, not the big C conservative.

Sean Stone: yes, yes,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, we've discussed this once before, but I think we focus mostly on Europe. Something about Olive came on early in the podcast. She was a model in Europe. And one of the things she talked about was when she posed nude in public places in Europe, people would sometimes stop and watch. But she said she never got like the police called on or anything like that.

And that is not generally how I feel like it goes here.

Sean Stone: no, I've had the same experience, I mean, in Europe, it's, you know, you might get a look [00:27:00] or people might stop and talk to you or something like that if you're nude, but And actually in Vermont as well. I mean, Vermont, they're more laid back, but in general, in anywhere else in the country, I mean, you're, you walk around nude at all, or, you know.

Are seen nude. I mean, you could easily be looking at, you know, sex crime charges. So, which is just totally absurd in my opinion. I mean, I get it. If you're actually doing something sexual to be naked is not especially if it's You know, just being nude, not, not doing anything sexual. I mean, I don't understand why that would incur, you know, why is that offensive?

What, what is, I really think it is the strong biblical foundation to our country that has kind of pushed that. And I [00:28:00] have, you know, I mean, I was raised in a very conservative house. I get it. It's. And I have no problem with any religion. I just don't like the perspectives of any religion being forced upon me.

And I do feel like, you know, the the disdain of nudity is is Religious perspectives being pushed on me or being pushed on the country, you know, so I don't understand how a country that is so progressive with some things can be so, so backwards in terms of openness of the human body and of, of what we are.

I mean, you know, we talked to, you know, we claim that we're, we're being more accepting of LBGTQ rights , but then we come back and we're like, oh yeah, well, you know. We can be accepting of these things, but, you know, nudity, [00:29:00] no, no, no, no, no, you know, cover that, cover that shit up.

You know, I can't, I just, I don't understand, you know, I mean, it's, it, it, it baffles me how we can be so backwards peddling. I don't understand. So.

Matthew Holliday: I, it's, it's just, and you mentioned that because my first thought when you suggested this topic was of course the puritanical kind of origins of the country, which you mentioned. But then the second part of that was also like, well, haven't we moved away from that? The majority of folks in the U S no longer religious. But yeah, there's still, there's still almost like

Sean Stone: I don't, I don't know if I would say that the majority of the people in the country are less religious. I would say that the majority of the people, the, I, I really, I honestly think the majority of the people in this country would be open to nudity or more accepting of the human body. But what the problem with our country is, is we are in a situation where're, [00:30:00] we're where we are on extreme divides.

You know, we've got extremist conservative ism and we have extremist liberalism, but the majority of the people aren't those people. They're just the loudest people. You know, the majority of people are in the middle and they're, you know, much more centrist with perspectives and they are probably more centrist in terms of faith and religion.

And the fact that only loud people win in this country. This is really, I think that's the driving force. I think that's the problem. So

Matthew Holliday: Hey, I wonder how much of it is age too. I'm just

Sean Stone: I agree.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Thinking back to my twenties and in college, it felt like people were happy to not male happy. So the wrong word, but it felt like there was a lot more maybe it's just transgressiveness. Maybe it wasn't specifically nudity related. It was just, you know, they wanted, people wanted to just transgress.

Sean Stone: Yeah, that could be. I mean, I don't know. You know, it's tough [00:31:00] because my very, my very best friend in the whole world was my grandfather. He passed away two years ago and he was 92. And I remember having a conversation with him even three or four years ago, where we were talking about, you know, what is wrong with this country in terms of nudity?

He's like, I don't understand. He goes, I don't understand why people have a problem with it. But he also was not somebody who was very religious. So maybe there is a correlation there between religion and acceptance of. You know, nudity. I don't know. It's I've done a lot of thinking about religion and faith and everything over the years.

And the older I get, the more I think about it. But it's I'm trying to think of what, what the what I was going to say is, I feel at least it. This is my own perspective. I feel that there is definitely a higher power, [00:32:00] you know, watching over us, so to speak, and having children and seeing the miracle that they are, that's really my driving force there. But do I feel like there is a book that we need to follow word for word, you know, that was.

In my opinion, designed to sculpt society and control the people. No, I don't think we should be following that. But but I think too many laws, too many perspectives in the community were, were, were wrapped around that. So,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I mean, you mentioned it before the whole potentially getting arrested and being put on the sex offender registry.

Sean Stone: I mean, that's absurd. 

Matthew Holliday: I remember in college my fraternity used to go streaking just all the time.

Sean Stone: Oh yeah.

Matthew Holliday: And then at some point somebody told me, they're like, Hey, you know, you can be put on the sex offender registry. If you get caught doing that, then they arrest you for it.

Sean Stone: Yeah, absolutely.

Matthew Holliday: was like, wait, what really?

Like we're just running around

Sean Stone: It is insane. Yeah, it really is, you know, [00:33:00] and I know we were planning to talk about this a little bit later, and I don't know if you want to wait on me bringing that up, but like with the sex club, sex club situation.

Matthew Holliday: Go for it.

Sean Stone: So I told you I operated a sex club for a while and

Matthew Holliday: a wild life, by the way.

Sean Stone: Yes. Yes.

Yes. Exactly. And before that, I just belonged to one, you know, it was like a floating sex club within Boston. And one of my favorite things was, yeah, okay, there's, you know, it's sort of an orgy. There's a lot of people playing around and everything, but actually one of the more interesting times is after people are not doing things or maybe there'll be a few people playing, you've got a group of us who are off, you know, on the side.

Eating crackers, you know, drinking a glass of wine, whatever, but we're all standing there naked, right? And we're talking and we're laughing and we're just having, you know, regular conversations about things that people talk about, [00:34:00] but we're just standing there in our birthday suit, you know? And there are a lot more people out there who are like that in terms of they just want the freedom to be an adult.

And be able to just be themselves in their own skin and not be bound to the craziness that is our society. I mean I miss that. I miss being part, you know, a part of sex clubs. I mean, it's, it's just, there's a freedom to it. There is something that you just can't Grasp. I mean, almost all the people, you know, they had kids, there were, you know, state police officers that were part of the club.

There were FBI agents. I mean, it doesn't matter. It was all walks of life. I think we had a judge. I mean, it's, it's, you know, but seriously, I mean, and they just want to be people. They just want to be able to relax with people that are, you know, like minded and, you know, they're not out there to try and make anybody uncomfortable.

There's [00:35:00] always consent in these situations. So It's just a chance to sort of have an adult playground, so to speak, you know, so,

Matthew Holliday: Well, it's interesting. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull this back and match this up with what we were talking about earlier with the photography. Man, you, you'd think I'd be, I was being paid to pitch mega glam or something, but by going back to what I said there, where you're being surrounded by naked and half naked models and it's the opposite of sexy.

I, I feel like this is an exposure thing too, for a lot of folks where the only instance they see nudity in is A, sexual or B, accidental, which, you know, the whole voyeurism slash exhibitionism thing. I mean, I still remember, I think it was fifth grade. My father and I were walking around the neighborhood and we saw a woman changing through a window.

And that is one of the most erotic memories of my. Childhood and it's stupid. It [00:36:00] was just a person changing clothes, but because it was forbidden.

Sean Stone: The taboo is the, you know, things that are taboo, they are like marijuana. You know, you've got so many places now that are. Allowing sale of marijuana and allowing usage of marijuana and it's it's actually reduced some of the addictions that are going on out there because it's not taboo anymore. It's not. It's like I've always sort of had a problem with people not being allowed to drink until the 21.

You know, they're allowed to fight for their country.

Matthew Holliday: Boat.

Sean Stone: But they're and vote, but they're not allowed to have alcohol again. This is a puritanical thing that's been carried through. And it's just, it's, it's religion trying to control our country, which I, I just don't agree with whatsoever. And, but when you forbid it and you send these kids off to college and then they go and they Parties where they're drinking, they're not just [00:37:00] drinking, they're binge drinking because it's taboo and it's something that's not allowed.

I mean, in our house, they've, my kids have always had the freedom to have a drink if they wanted to. And consequently, they've literally never had a drink. They just never had the desire, they, because the freedom was there that they knew they could, you know? So now when they're off at college, I feel pretty secure knowing that they're not going to go out binge drinking because If they ever wanted a drink, they could always do it at home.

Or, you know, I mean, it's, it's just not taboo. Same thing with nudity. It's not taboo in our home. You know what I mean? You walk around, it's who cares, you know, you're in your birthday suit. I mean, it's just, it is what it is. So I think, I just think there's too many, I just think there's too much push for. Religious perspectives on society. So that's

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, no, we did the same thing with our son. He had the ability to drink as long as he did it at home. And didn't go anywhere afterwards. All right. So [00:38:00] we, so we've only got a few minutes left. I kind of wanted to dive into how this apply again, because this is a photography podcast, let's try and take this and apply this over to male photographers and the whole kind of taboo and art. So, I've been noticing myself that a lot of people who are quote unquote artistic seem to get a pass when they do things that normal people consider inappropriate or titillating.

For example, if you are driving down the road and you're playing WAP or you're playing Baby Got Back or something like that loudly with the windows down, people will look at you and go, what is that trash? But like most other people will look at you and just be like, turn the music down. They don't have a problem with the music, they have a problem with the volume.

Sean Stone: yes.

Matthew Holliday: And you see photographers, I'm specifically thinking of Terry Richardson here, which Terry Richardson has a whole slew of other issues around him that [00:39:00] we're not going to go into here. But when he shoots his non fashion stuff, he's Like portraying a lifestyle, like a rock and roll lifestyle, like I'm hanging out with models, I'm banging people, everybody's naked here, like I just hang out with a bunch of naked people.

And I feel like a lot of male photographers are actually chasing exactly that.

Sean Stone: Like the Hugh Hefner kind of perspective or the

Matthew Holliday: yeah, like, like we're just hanging out with hot models, and we're just hanging out naked, and I

Sean Stone: I've definitely seen a few photographers like that. And they are more interested in the ego rather than the know, rather than the art. Of it, which is sad that those that there are some of those that they become so famous or so successful, I think it's because they maybe do have some raw artistic talent, but they're not allowing that to be their drive.

They're allowing their, their ego or [00:40:00] their or their potential to have, you know, hot models hanging around them and everything that that that is their driving force. So, yeah. So.

Matthew Holliday: And a lot of, I've spoken with several models melancholic mentioned this I can't remember some of the other ones, but some of the models I've talked to have acknowledged this and sort of shrugged their shoulders being like, well, you know what? I'm providing a service. And frankly, like you mentioned before, you can't be a model without dealing with these sorts of people.

There's just not enough. Artistic photographers out there. Do you have any,

Sean Stone: well, there, there are a lot of, I do think that there are a lot of artistic photographers out there. I just, you, you, I just don't always their motives are around the, you know, around art itself. Can you ask the question one more time? I'm not, there was

Matthew Holliday: yeah, I was, yeah, it was no worries. I just it was, well, what I, what I was getting to, what I [00:41:00] was eventually getting to was what do we do about those photographers? Do we just sort of accept that they're there, that having photographers that are doing this as a sexual gratification thing, or just kind of a required function of this, because there's not enough photographers who are in this for art to support a model ecosystem.

Sean Stone: Well, You can choose to support those photographers by buying their artwork, or you can choose not to I often will go on fine art America. That's a website that sells a lot of that. I've seen a lot of figure quality figure work at, and they do have work by Terry Richardson and, you know, a lot of other photographers I will try and find a photographer that I have never really heard of, or that is more of the little guy.

It's sort of like, excuse me. It's sort of like going around town and, you know, supporting your local business rather than supporting, you know, the giant target or [00:42:00] Walmart out there. You know, looking for the true art, the true person that is focused on not being famous, but. Focused on how can they provide a different perspective to an artistic interpretation?

You know,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah,

Sean Stone: not sure if that makes sense, but

Matthew Holliday: it, it, yeah, it, I know that you've said that you are in a fortunate place where you don't have to do that kind of art, where you can, where someone approaches you with something like that, you can just decline.

Sean Stone: right. But I haven't always, I haven't, I actually have always been in that position. I just haven't accepted that I was in that position. So. So subsequently I have accepted a lot of shady photographers to do work for. But at one point, you know, [00:43:00] here I am working a full time job, sometimes a full time and a part time job.

And then I'm doing my, you know, my art on the side, whether it's modeling or being a photographer. And I think I was talking to A photographer, friend of mine, Andrew Graham, who's down in Connecticut. He's, he shot that photo, a couple of those photos of me with like holding a pumpkin out or me hanging from the tree in my Instagram there.

And he said to me, he goes, you know, You, as a model, have the right to choose who you're working with, and this was a few years ago, and that kind of was a dawning on me. I'm like, really? Can I just say no if, you know, I'm not crazy about a photographer's artwork? And so then I started doing that and I just found myself a lot more at peace.

You know, I go in and the time that I'm spending is quality time. You know you find someone that fits [00:44:00] your niche or that might help you grow as a person. And those are the ones you want to focus on rather than that are out there just to get sexual gratification. And you can tell pretty quickly who those people are that want to just get sexual gratification.

You know, if they're talking about not that there's anything wrong with that. I mean, I've done plenty of shoots where, you know, it's either my objective or the photographer's objective, but a lot more work that I've done. You go to do and you talk to them, you say, well, you know, what are you planning for the shoot?

And if they say, well, you know, I have this concept of different ways that I want to shoot, you know, the arm and, you know, different poses that I'd like you to do with your arm, or, you know, I want you to wear a series of hats for fun or something like that. I mean, it sounds weird, but. You know, talking to them and having a detailed conversation with them about what their expectations are and you can pretty quickly, you know, if they're, if they're like, well, I really want to get, you [00:45:00] know, get you as hard as possible and get, you know, just maybe, maybe get a couple of cum shots or whatever.

It's like,

Matthew Holliday: a couple, you're a,

Sean Stone: well, you know, Hey, three, four, you know. But,

Matthew Holliday: think, I think we are, we're just about, we're just about out of time here. I think it's time to move on to closing, unless you've got a final word you want to say on that.

Sean Stone: No, no, that's yeah, it's, it's just a lot of, you, you just need to trust your instincts is where I was going with it. So,

Matthew Holliday: All right. Well, let's shut this bad boy down. And some of the feedback I got last year, I had someone suggest that I asked guests on the podcast to recommend either photographers or models that people should follow and or work with. You've actually already mentioned a couple, so I don't know if you want to repeat those ones here or if you have others.

Sean Stone: Yeah. Doc Wright is one of my favorites. He actually taught photography up at the University of Vermont. And he is not really in Vermont so much [00:46:00] now he's down in Texas. So he is still doing some, some work. I think his Instagram is dark, right? Photography. Andrew Graham is has a very good eye.

Richard Winston is one of my very, very good friends and he's a phenomenal photographer. He is very good at focusing on the male body and he is somebody who will focus on the phallus, but, but he does, he does it in a very artistically creative way, which I like who else? 

Matthew Holliday: Doc. Right. His figures by D O K

Sean Stone: yep. Yep. Figures by D okay.

Yep. And he does a lot of other, he does a lot of other photography as well, not just the human body, but there was a musing eye concept. Was it musing eye concepts? Is that what?

Matthew Holliday: I think so. Yeah.

Sean Stone: eyes is his photography studio, but he's fantastic. I love working with him.[00:47:00] I did a lot of work with Jen Evie as a model

Matthew Holliday: she was Jen. She was WTF. Jen. You, yeah, she, you link her on some of your,

Sean Stone: I do. Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: your, your photographs with her. Yeah.

Sean Stone: Yeah. She's she's great. She does. She is really good at picking very cool artistic projects. She was actually somebody as well, who told me, you know, if you don't like, if you don't like a shoot, you know. You don't have to do it, you know, pick and choose what you're doing out there because you've only got so much time to work with.

And she's right. So who else? I'm browsing through my photography. I mean, I am a photographer as well. So I am, I have lately been looking for models of all genders. I'd really like to do some transgender, some work with transgender or more gender binary people, but I, I love shooting males. I love shooting females.

I've done a lot of work with females, but go ahead.

Matthew Holliday: just saying, I have not seen many transgender models. I'd love to get one on the

Sean Stone: No, [00:48:00] yeah, I absolutely.

Matthew Holliday: with a couple as well. No,

Sean Stone: Yeah, I think, I think they're afraid. A lot of transgender people who I, I am friends with quite a few, but I mean, I think a lot of them are afraid of being typecast or pigeonholed, you know, with the work that they do or they're, or they're maybe just not comfortable, you know, being on film.

So it really depends on the

Matthew Holliday: we did have, we did have a transgender photographer on. So we have had one, one, one shop but we haven't seen many models, but I can understand if you've got body dysmorphia issues you probably are not interested in modeling. So I can totally understand.

Sean Stone: Yeah. And it depends on where they are in their acceptance of their, of their gender role, because. You know, there is there is a point when you're trying to change the gender that you feel that you are on the inside and you feel that your outside still isn't matching it, that you might not [00:49:00] want to be on film and I get that.

So, but yeah, I mean, my photography. Is brilliant lens on Instagram. So, you know, people are always welcome to reach out to me. I'm can't really, there is one model who I love, who I would love to shoot or work with, and that's poppy seed. 

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Sean Stone: she is, and I've talked with her many times. We I've almost done during COVID.

We almost did a few shoots the remote shoots and she was in, I think she was in Switzerland or. Norway or somewhere, but she's a lot of fun to talk to too. I mean, I've had some good conversations with her.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I met her in DC and interviewed her directly. Although my, that was one of the first times doing audio in person. My audio is not great. 

Sean Stone: She's very creative. I mean,

Matthew Holliday: she's very magnetic in

Sean Stone: Oh, she is, she is. So yeah, I'd love to work with her at some point. So

Matthew Holliday: All right. Final, final question for you. What's your favorite picture in your [00:50:00] portfolio and why

Sean Stone: favorite picture. My favorite pictures tend to change, but one of my, I actually have, if I can spot two favorites one is with myself and a model next to a radiator against a brick wall. And that was with Giselle Humes, who is a, she's a porn star and our chemistry was very good there. And we just, it sure by itself just has so much passion in it that I just, I love, I love the way it is.

And probably one of my favorite other shots would be one where, and the focus isn't even all that great on it, but a little bit further down, there's a photo of me leaping out of. A swimming pool. You can't necessarily tell it's a swimming pool and I'm holding, what I'm actually holding is like a concrete ball,

Matthew Holliday: Interesting.

Sean Stone: the muscle tone and everything and the water movement, [00:51:00] and it was just, it was perfect the way it came.

And that Doc Wright shot that actually in his backyard. So that was a lot of fun. So,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. That one's very cool. All right. Well I would, I apologize for, I don't know how much of this dog whining is coming through, but I've had a dog at my feet whining to go outside for the last 30

Sean Stone: Oh, I haven't heard it at all.

Matthew Holliday: That's good. Good. Awesome. Cause I was really worried. I was like, I don't know how I'm going to get that out of the audio. All right. So Sean, where can everyone find you online?

Sean Stone: Well, it can find me at Sean stone model on Instagram. If they really want to look at the more erotic side of me, I'm also on fans Lee Sean Schlong. Sean

Matthew Holliday: I'm sorry. You're like Sean Stone. That's already a porn name. You're like, Nope, not enough.

Sean Stone: Stone model is my Instagram. And they can also find me on Instagram with my photography work at Brilliant Lens on [00:52:00] Instagram.

Matthew Holliday: Awesome. Well, thank you very much for coming on. It's been super interesting conversation. And with that, we are done. You can find us at the NSFW photography podcast. com on Twitter as at NSFW photography, Instagram at the NSFW photography podcast. I have a mastodon instance set up at NSFW photography dot social that is dedicated to nude and adult photography with a very light hand on the moderation.

Basically, if it's not illegal, please feel free to post it. And finally subscribe on your favorite podcast app.