NSFW Pod 043 - Inara The Slut, Part 2! Culture of nude and erotic art!

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Matthew Holliday:Welcome to the N F W Photography Podcast, where we explore the art and business of erotic photography. We bring you in-depth interviews with photographers and models who push the boundaries of sexual expression. Through their work, we'll delve into their creative processes, the challenges they face, and the ways they're shaping the industry.

Whether you're a photographer or model looking to expand your portfolio. We're simply a fan of [00:35:00] erotic art. This is the podcast for you. So join us as we journey into the central side of photography and discover the beauty, intimacy, and empowerment that comes with it. Today we're interviewing Anar Star.

Anar is a nude, boudoir, fetish and erotic model based in Baltimore, frequently traveling to the dmv. She started creating nude and fetish art in 2010 and has loved it ever since. You can find her on Instagram at Anar the Slut. Along with her tagline, slut is a term of endearment. Welcome to part two of our interview with Anar Star.

If you missed it, check out the last episode for her backstory and some discussion around the energy of groups of models. For this part, we're gonna be talking about the culture around not safe for work photography. So this is a hugely broad topic. In fact, it's so broad. I don't even know where to. So the easiest place is a definition to make sure we're all kind of thinking and talking about the same thing.

Uh, I went ahead and looked this up online cuz that's what online is good for. Uh, culture is the customary beliefs, social forms [00:36:00] and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group. Uh, I don't think that people who do neurotic photography are a religious group, although I bet you could argue that

Inara Starr: True,

Matthew Holliday: uh, we're, I think we're gonna skip the questions on material traits cuz I don't think that one's very interesting. Uh, I mean, material traits for photographers are like umbrellas and soft boxes and cameras, which they fetishize a little bit. But, uh, and material traits of models are giant suitcases full of outfits and shoes,

Inara Starr: And then just every location a bomb has gone off of all of our clothes.

Matthew Holliday: I'm always impressed with how quickly models can get it cleaned up at the end of this year. Like you look over at their dressing area, whatever, and you're like, wow.

Inara Starr: Oh, it's because the inside of the bag is just craft, like it's no longer [00:37:00] organized or anything, like, everything is just thrown in there and like smushed down.

Matthew Holliday: All right. So what, at a high level, uh, or, or what specifically about the culture around, not say for work photography or let's just call it nude photography going forward. Uh, what was it that you've made, you want to talk about this? Because I'm certain that it's not, you didn't wanna talk about the whole thing.

You probably wanna talk about a certain part of.

Inara Starr: It was, it was mostly the, the, the same sort of culture that is in pretty much every industry where there's like a toxic part that is still very much like supported within the industry. uh, while there's the other side that is like, Hey, we don't tolerate this stuff anymore because that's dumb and we never should have tolerated it.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, so what part is the toxic part? And I'm like 90% sure I know what you're gonna answer. I'm [00:38:00] 90% sure everybody listening to this knows exactly what you're talking about, but.

Inara Starr: Um, the depart. Anytime there is somebody who has sexually assaulted someone, put someone in danger, um, just not, not paid them, tried to coerce them into doing more than they were comfortable with. Um, those people, of course, um, are ho horrible and it's, it's horrible that, uh, they even try to exist in this market.

A lot of times what they want is just a sex worker and they don't wanna pay for one. They just wanna pay a model.

Matthew Holliday: So let's talk about the payment part first, cuz that one's probably gonna be the shorter discussion I actually recently saw on Instagram. Do you follow Alice Antoinette?

Inara Starr: I don't,[00:39:00] 

Matthew Holliday: So I happen to see, let me actually confirm that this is who did it. I ate, uh, attribute it Alice Antoinette model. She recently posted that she just got back from a trip where four out of five of the photographers that she had scheduled with, uh, ghosted, blocked or otherwise didn't pay her.

Inara Starr: oh, that's,

Matthew Holliday: So that's, yeah, that's a huge, especially because you make the trip with the expectation that, you know, I've, I've got this many people that are set up, they're gonna pay me this much. I'm gonna out, I'm gonna outlay this much for the flight or driving or hotels and all that. And then now you are in the hole.

So it's not like, it's not like a local photographer who, who ghosted you and you're like, oh no, no, I'm not getting paid for one shoot. Like this is, this is a pretty substantial outlay. Uh, how often do you see that?

Inara Starr: I would say I haven't done much modeling outside of like, large events with a lot of [00:40:00] photographers or just like modeling within my area. Um,

Matthew Holliday: You don't have

Inara Starr: so I haven't,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Inara Starr: yeah, so I haven't necessarily experienced that, but I definitely have friends who have experienced that.

Matthew Holliday: Have you had people ghost you, even just locally? Uh, not, yeah, like after they've scheduled, after everything's been arranged and then they just disappear.

Inara Starr: no, it is honestly, yeah, no, I've never had a photographer do that luckily, but, um, So I, I am chronically ill

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Inara Starr: with many different things, and so there are times where I have a photo shoot scheduled, but my body's just like, we don't work today. So luckily I've dealt with a lot of, uh, photographers who were very understanding about that.

Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. Is it more, I imagine it's quite a bit more common before the things have scheduled and before [00:41:00] things are finalized. You probably get a lot of photographers that reach out and then never follow up.

Inara Starr: Yes. Yeah, that definitely happens. Um, which I have a horrible memory and half the time they're scheduling, like, on Instagram, so it all just blends together. So I don't necessarily remember.

Matthew Holliday: Instagram, I don't understand how Instagram is so terrible for messaging, but it, it shouldn't be so easy to lose messages, but it is.

Inara Starr: I, it's just, it's just so much. I think it's like, cause. You're, you're the likes and hearts and smiles that people do to your story shows up in your messages. And like, especially with me, it's just like, I'll just have 50,000 hearts and like, I'm like, where is this freaking message like it was yesterday?

Matthew Holliday: I don't have that problem because nobody likes my stuff. . [00:42:00] And I'm

Inara Starr: not a pretty girl on the internet.

Matthew Holliday: I'm not posting, yeah, not posting those, uh, those selfies that apparently I should be doing. Woo. I'm told I have a nice butt. Maybe I should be

Inara Starr: pin up boy, I tell you, I'm telling you big boy pin up.

Matthew Holliday: All right. Uh, so back to, we, we, we covered the payment, but let's go back to the, uh, inappropriate, uh, cultural bit. Is it? So you, you typically stay in your geographic area, so I can't ask you if it's geographically diverse, but is it centered around different types of photography? Like do you encounter this more with, uh, so-called nude photographers versus fetish photographers versus glamor photographers versus erotic?

Like is there one where you've noticed that, oh man, these guys for some reason,

Inara Starr: I think it's just like a little bit of all of them because they're all sort of like in the realm of, uh, this could be, uh, uh, something that turns you on. [00:43:00] So there's always that, that possibility. And so I think there's, because there's, there's that, this is definitely a line. I mean, some people get turned on for.

Much more clothing being on, but significantly less so.

Matthew Holliday: I'm sure you've seen a lot of different stereotypes of photographers. Uh, do you have any, any, are there any of these toxic ones? Pretty stereotypical

Inara Starr: Um, uh, yeah, definitely, definitely. There's uh, there was a meme that went around recently that was like, guys who say they're professional photographers, be like, I had this idea and it's just like a stock photo of a girl in lingerie just standing facing straightforward. And it's like not anything interesting at all.

And like all of my model friends were like, oh my God. Yes. This happens all the [00:44:00] time. You've got people who don't have any skill and like, there are definitely models who will not shoot with photographers if they don't have any skill. I'm so damn true with you, if you don't have any. Even if I think that maybe you're doing it because it turns you on, but I am gonna try and get more money from you if I'm providing two services, you're paying more.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Living, you're not living rent free in their head. Afterwards, uh, they're paying rent. Are there any other, uh, stereotypes You got the, the woman, their skill that just sends you their, their, their concept is a, is a straight, is there like hotel shoot guys? Is that a stereotype? Is there like phone photographers?

Inara Starr: Yeah. The guys who like try and get young models, those are, there are like a lot of photographers who are like, I like working with girls who are new to the industry. And it's like, yeah. It's [00:45:00] because you're trying to take advantage of them.

Matthew Holliday: like to say, I like to mentor, or I like to train or teach them. And you're like, huh, red flag.

Inara Starr: Yep. I like to mentor young girls, gross going.

Matthew Holliday: You know?

Inara Starr: Um, so

Matthew Holliday: mentor means,

Inara Starr: yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's, so that's, that's definitely one of them. Um, can't think of another one right now.

Matthew Holliday: I mean, there's the, there's the photographers that like to touch models to adjust, oh, you've got some hair here, let me move it off. Oh, let me adjust your lingerie.

Inara Starr: Yes. The over adjusters. I, I have not experienced that, but I'm also like, pretty much, uh, if you need to adjust something, you can touch me to adjust it. I don't care.

Matthew Holliday: I just don't touch models in general. It's better that way.

Inara Starr: Yeah, if, [00:46:00] if I'm like completely unable to grasp the direction someone is trying to get me and they need to like grab my head and like move it to the direction.

Like if I am just, if I broke and glitched and couldn't figure out the words you were saying to me, I'm like, you can, that's fine. You can touch me. That's fine. I, um, I'm, I've, I've been to enough bars been around enough children that being touched is not really like, uh, I can handle a lot of different types of touch, a lot of different places.

And, um, if the photographer, if it's like, oh, this is what a sex worker would be doing, then that's different. For the most part, I'm like, yeah, like if you need to adjust my bra strap, feel free. If you need to adjust, like whatever. I don't really care.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Role play is [00:47:00] extra. Sorry. Um,

Inara Starr: yes. And I'm like, and I'm, yeah.

Matthew Holliday: it's funny you bring up children and touching. It's something I noticed as I transitioned from college into more of an office role and an office world. That was one of the things about, I mentioned the restaurant versus office workers. Office workers never touch each other.

There's like a 12 inch bubble around everybody.

Inara Starr: keep room for Jesus.

Matthew Holliday: and, and just adults in general I've found just never touch each other. There's no touch. And you compare that to like high school, like when you're in high school, if there was a three seat bench, you and your seven friends all fit on the bench together. Uh, and then yeah, somewhere, somewhere. And yeah, like I said, restaurant people tend to not have that cuz you're, you know, brushing by each other frequently as you're going in and out of the kitchen doors and on the line, et cetera. But yeah, there's such a cultural difference.

Inara Starr: and that definitely, it definitely makes a lot of, it [00:48:00] makes a lot of sense cuz Yeah. Especially if you do like modeling with other people. Especially if it's like central modeling with other people. Like

Matthew Holliday: You have to get

Inara Starr: tend to be Yeah, you tend to be more chill with touch.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm. Uh, how about the amateur gynecologist?

Inara Starr: Oh

Matthew Holliday: keep posing, but yet it weirdly looks like he's using a zoom lens to take pictures of about six square inches.

Inara Starr: taking a picture of my pussy. Like, that's okay, you're paying more. I know what you want. I knew as soon as I saw your shit. You're not a talented photographer. You are paying a lot more money than everyone else's, but because they're paying a lot more money, I'm like, I don't care.

Whatever man.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Yeah. I have a, there's a pretty talented photographer that I spoke with before that I like a lot of his work. Uh, but one of his books, and it's just, it's just an [00:49:00] entire book of like 50 shots of vaginas.

Inara Starr: Oh, that sounds like that's definitely one of those where it's like that can either be a stunning, gorgeous project where like I would totally want to have that is like a coffee table book or it's just like gross.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, I haven't seen the book, so I don't know. I, I actually went and looked it up. Uh, I like his work. I like what he does. Uh, he has a very Richard Kern vibe, which is like, kind of, kind of grungy and dirty New York vibe. Uh, but I like it. But yeah, it's hard to tell just from the description there.

You're like, Ooh, this could really go, this could really go either way pretty hard, so. Hmm. I should probably edit some of that out. I wouldn't want it. Uh, cuz people would be like, he's talking shit. I actually, I, like I said, I don't know what to think about it cuz it's, it, it could go without seeing it. You don't know

Inara Starr: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean it's probably, if it's in a book, it's probably good.

Matthew Holliday: these days though, where you can self-publish anything.[00:50:00] 

Inara Starr: That's true. But I feel like it's super bold. Like, ha, it, it would be super fucking bold and a lot of money to publish a book that was just like bad pictures,

Matthew Holliday: No, that's true.

Inara Starr: pictures of

Matthew Holliday: I know, and you're right cuz this was published before the self-publishing thing took off. So I think this is actually a,

Inara Starr: it's gotta be good.

Matthew Holliday: yeah. Or at least treated respectfully.

Inara Starr: Yes, yes.

Matthew Holliday: So we've already kind of talked about how a lot of the cultural issues around here driven the fact that this hobby industry involves naked people and sex.

And there are certainly people that are in it for the art, but there's a lot of people that are not in it for the art. Uh, so just outta curiosity, what percentage of photographers do you think do this pure? Not, not, not. Well, let's say, I'm sure it's a scale. There's like one, the scale on one side is [00:51:00] art and the scale on the other side is hang out and sleep with models.

What percentage of photographers do you think are predominantly on the sleep with models? Side

Inara Starr: um, on the, ah, hmm. I hate to

Matthew Holliday: to get

Inara Starr: I hate to say like 50%, but it feels like at least 50%.

Matthew Holliday: Oh, I'd agree. At least 50%. I don't think there's nearly enough. Uh, we had this discussion with, uh, uh, who was it melancholic, I think, uh, like two years ago. There's not enough serious art photographers to support more than a few models. There just aren't like, if you want to try and make a living off of this, You have to take money from people that are basically there to see you naked, at least to make a living, not to make a full-time job off it.

You could do it as a part-time job pretty easily. I think just working with only serious art photographers.

Inara Starr: But no. Yeah, if, if you wanna make it a [00:52:00] full-time, you're gonna have to work with people who are kind of gross. But that is why I suggest making

Matthew Holliday: drinking. Oh, no, just kidding. I'm sorry. I'm

Inara Starr: tiered system. Decide what amount of money you are okay with that for, and then make them.

Matthew Holliday: make them pay it. Yeah. There's a, there's a gross tax. There's a

Inara Starr: They're freaking is there is a gross tax. There is an, I don't like you tax, so, uh

Matthew Holliday: So what does that say about the models that quoted their rates to me at hour? Son of a bitch. I'm just kidding. They're, they're, I don't know. I don't know if I'm getting or not, actually. I don't know. Anyways, all right, let's get back on part one. I mentioned that I had been listening to a podcast where, uh, famous porn star [00:53:00] recently came out as being anti-porn because she was taken advantage of. Uh, we talked a little bit about her case and about the pay, but there was another, uh, Riley Reed spoke out as well.

Uh, specifically her concern was about the shame and stigma that comes with being an adult actress. Now, you're not an adult actress, at least as far as I know, but working in an adjacent industry, do you encounter a lot of stigma or are you low key enough that. Nobody knows, and therefore you're just flying under the radar.

Inara Starr: Um, I mean there's, there's this weird thing that happens with a lot of, um, sex workers and models, uh, on like Facebook and the internet where guys who hate sex workers and like nude models will friend sex workers and nude models and then like hate on their stuff. [00:54:00] It's bizarre. Yeah. So that's, that's an interesting thing that happens.

But a lot of times, and then there's the people who are trying to, to save me because I had somebody say he wanted to save me because I am just a young woman. and I have so much life ahead of me. He thought I was like 18 and I was like, uh, I, no. And like, I think I was older than him by two years.

Matthew Holliday: We forgot. When we talked about stereotypes, we didn't talk about Captain Seva.

Inara Starr: Oh yeah. Oh my God. There's so many like predatory photographers out there who are like, oh, you're struggling. Let me help you. And then inevitably manipulate you with the fact that you need me to have a place to live.

Matthew Holliday: is, that's interesting. How does that work?

Inara Starr: Oh. Um, I mean, a lot of times, [00:55:00] like it'll be, it'll be like a mentor photographer that's just like, oh, you're struggling. Like, let me help you because I'm so generous and kind.

Matthew Holliday: yeah, that actually, so that was actually my third example. Uh, Jenna Jameson, uh, recently came out and she said that she had originally thought she got into doing adult work because she wanted to, but, uh, recently has decided that her boyfriend at the time pressured her into it when she was younger. Uh, I don't, I don't know if there's, we've, we've spoken a lot about photographer misbehavior, but have you heard of anybody who's a model who's been pressured by their boyfriend or their significant other to Hmm.

Inara Starr: about more models being pressured to quit by a significant other than like pressured to get into it. I'm sure there are, uh, boyfriends that pressure them to get into it, but it definitely feels like it's more the photographers,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. How many uh, models do you know that actually date [00:56:00] photographers?

Inara Starr: um, date photographers.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Cuz that's, uh, what a lot of photographers get into this because of, so

Inara Starr: I guess like, I think I, I don't know of any, any, anyone who has, I know models who are, um, also sex workers. So they have had photographers pay for sex, but they've never, I don't know anyone who's just dated a photographer.

Matthew Holliday: Is that a viable business model? Like, sell yourself as a model and then try to upcharge them when you get there?

Inara Starr: It's usually not even an upcharge. It's just, fucking bold. These guys are bold and they, you know what they want. Like they'll tell you a lot of times what they want and they'll hint for stuff. They'll, oh, can I? What if you try to do this? So what about this? Or what about this? [00:57:00] Um, there's a lot of photographers who are like, I wanna do p o b sex.

And I'm like, so you want to have sex with me? Okay. That's a different thing, honey. That's, that's not the job that you think I'm doing. That's a very different job. But those guys exist and they will tell you in person that they want to do that.

Matthew Holliday: Oh, oh, hold on, hold on. So when they, so the, so let's, we do have some, hopefully we have some, you know, new models potentially who wanna get into this that are listening. So they'll typically, when they message you, They'll look for a legit job. And it's only when you show up in person that they start pushing or

Inara Starr: um, well, that, that happens sometimes. Sometimes they'll tell you beforehand that they wanna do it. Um, sometimes they'll tell you afterwards. Um, it just sort of depends on [00:58:00] who they are and if they're trying to like, get away with something.

Matthew Holliday: no. Huh?

Inara Starr: Like if they're bold thinking, this is just photography I'm doing and it's nothing else they'll tell you beforehand, but the people who are like, this isn't what I'm paying you for, they tend to wait until you're there.

Matthew Holliday: that's uh hmm. That's actually kind of funny. One of the, uh, I was talking with Natasha Nar uh, a couple of months ago and we were, we were talking about this exact problem and I suggested like, it'd be interesting to do some content where it's the photographer hitting on the model and then the model like role reverses and domm,

Inara Starr: So, um, on that topic, I actually, um, there was a photo shoot I was going to go to and somebody was like, there's a photographer there and he, he [00:59:00] may sexually assault you. And I was like, I'm going to, I brought my writing crop with me and like I redid it so that it hurt and I was like, oh, I'm ready if they do anything, I am smacking them across the face with this thing.

Like, I am here to fight. If they decide to do that to me, I am here to like make a scene.

Matthew Holliday: Did any of the other photographers there comment? Were like, wow, you're awful fierce today an ara.

Inara Starr: Uh, no. Cause I didn't actually end up making it to the photo shoot. Cause I spent an hour trying to park and I was like, fuck this, I'm just gonna go home.

Matthew Holliday: the parking there was a fucking nightmare.

Inara Starr: Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: I, I parked on the street for like an hour or two and then I, somebody moved out the back and I was able to park in the back. But yeah, it was not good.

Inara Starr: So I was like, I, I don't wanna be here enough.[01:00:00] 

Matthew Holliday: I didn't think I saw you there. I saw, I only saw after the fact, uh, when we were talking I saw that you posted that you were going and then I was like, oh, wow. I didn't see her. It must have been on a different day.

Inara Starr: It was gonna be, it was gonna be the next, the, the weekend for like the local people, but there was also a parade.

Matthew Holliday: Ooh, gotcha. Yeah, I was there the Friday before, or no, the Saturday before.

Inara Starr: Yeah. So, um, so yes, that is a thing. I am very much a, like, if a photographer makes me feel uncomfortable, um, uh, I will, I like the switch flips and I'm like, I am a dominatrix now, and you will do whatever I want. And that is the only way we're gonna interact from now on.

Matthew Holliday: Where does the preponderance of evidence lie there in terms of hearing that a photographer is being inappropriate? Is it enough that one person [01:01:00] said they're inappropriate? Uh, do you do require evidence of seeing it yourself? I suppose it also depends on who's saying it. If it's somebody you know and trust, then certainly one person is enough.

But if you're just hearing through the grape,

Inara Starr: It, it also depends on, I've, I've, I've dated so many guys at this point and like

Matthew Holliday: I'm sorry. That's

Inara Starr: and yeah, there was a long pause, uh, a lot of photographers and looking at their profiles and talking to them. I tend to be able to get a general vibe from them, which I hate the way that sounds, but like I get, I get an idea, like I've, I've interacted with enough people that the way they talk to me and the way they talk about other people, um, I tend to be able to know, uh, to, to sort of be like, yeah, no, that makes sense.[01:02:00] 

Like there was a, um, a photographer that sexually assaulted someone. I looked at his work and it was absolute shit and I was like, yeah, he's, uh, he is not necessarily a talented person. Uh, it's, it's just object. Like the entire profile just looks like objectification of women. So that makes sense. That pans out.

Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: what do you think that event should do in the case of an accusation like.

Inara Starr: I mean, definitely. If there is an event and um, somebody is sexually harassed there, whoever is running the event should immediately go to that person. So tangentially, I go to lifestyle parties, which are big sex parties, and if somebody violates consent at those parties, they get removed from the party [01:03:00] completely and no one's getting paid there.

It's just a bunch of people like hanging out together. But if somebody violates somebody else's consent, they're completely removed from the party and they're made to forced to leave. And I feel like we should at least have at minimum, better rules around consent than a sex party.

Matthew Holliday: That's, that's the minimum standard it seems.

Inara Starr: Like it, it feels like that should be everyone that feels like something that should be just generally agreed upon. Um, like having multiple people on the same page that if something like that happens, we are all not okay with it.

Matthew Holliday: So, all right. So, but you mentioned consent and that's come up before several times. Is it because there's not as much of a culture of consent in the modeling industry or, well, in the adult modeling or I guess nude modeling industry, [01:04:00] cuz I've heard some people talk about things like consent checklists and exit interviews, but that doesn't seem to be widespread.

Inara Starr: Yeah. Um, it's definitely, it's definitely not, um, cause I think there are just so many photographers that are in it to, to experience. Being with a naked woman and taking those pictures and less so about the art.

Matthew Holliday: That's fair. All right, we are getting close to the end of our time, so I want to ask you two more questions and then we'll do the closeout. First of all, have you noticed a change in this culture since you started working in 2010? Has it gotten better or worse? If so,

Inara Starr: Um, it is, it's, it's definitely, I mean, it's getting better in, I, I moved to a different location, so the location I was in, uh, was kind of worse. Uh, [01:05:00] but I was also modeling for like professors and stuff, uh, at the other place I was at, and now it's more general. I wasn't trying to make a living doing this before.

So it's definitely a, a different atmosphere when you're like fully emerged in it and trying to make a living at it. It's, but it's, it's getting better in general just like it's, it's still not great, but I feel like it's getting better in general. Um, I feel like I've seen a lot more talk around consent.

There's a model safety network. Uh, there's lots of different model safety networks and, um, there's a lot of models that are just fully talking about it, um, on their pages and they're afraid to call out that sort of behavior. Um, or they're not afraid to call out that sort of behavior on their page anymore.

Um, [01:06:00] whereas I feel like, oh, uh, like 10 years ago it probably would've been worse for the model in the industry who like talked out against stuff like that.

Matthew Holliday: I think that's just in general culture as well too.

Inara Starr: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Matthew Holliday: All right. Well, this is gonna be a gimme question I guess, because I think I already know the answer, but if you could change the culture around erotic and adult photography, if you could make one change, what would you do?

Inara Starr: Um, people have to be honest about what they want. The photographers who want to sleep with the model should be honest with themselves and the models and just tell the, like, just just get what you want. Don't try and manipulate someone into doing something. Pay for what you want. Don't try and get what you want from someone who isn't providing.

Matthew Holliday: You know, it's funny, uh, there's another podcast I [01:07:00] listen to. This is a lot of podcasts, uh, uh, it's called Kill You're and a Loser. And that was the source that was the subject of one of his podcasts a couple of days ago where he was talking about, uh, because he was talking about like red pill and like game.

And he was talking about how it's all about trying to trick a woman to thinking you're interesting, just long enough to sleep with them.

Inara Starr: Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: he was talking about like, just like if you're a good guy, like if you're an interesting guy, if you're a a reasonably successful guy, like just tell women what you want.

And some percentage of them will be into that. And the sooner that a woman says, no, you should be happy, because that means you're not wasting your time where your goals and their goals don't align. You could

Inara Starr: Uh, exactly.

Matthew Holliday: just explicitly tell them what you want. And if they say no, that doesn't fit within my boundaries.

I'm talking about models and photographers now. Then you say, thank you very much. Uh, good luck. Have a great life.

Inara Starr: Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Uh, come on. [01:08:00] would be so good though.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, this is, this is how you have to do it if you wanna be successful as a model.

Inara Starr: God. Yep.

Matthew Holliday: Uh, one last question actually. Uh, how should photographers be allies in this type of thing?

Inara Starr: Um, I mean, if you know about a predator at an event you're throwing, don't let them go to the event. Um, if somebody violates a model's consent, uh, don't be like, you're being dramatic. Yeah, that's, and like talking about things that are and are not Okay. Within photography circles, like talking within your, your peers so that it's not just the models telling the photographers not to do that.

Um, it's the photographer's peers telling them not to do. Which unfortunately, a lot of times that's what [01:09:00] it takes. Cause they don't care if the models don't like it, but if their peers are going to not like it, they'll change.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, that's, uh, that's people letting them get away with it.

Inara Starr: Yep.

Matthew Holliday: Um, all right, well on that lovely happy note, uh, , do you have any projects you wanna plug?

Inara Starr: Um, I've got, uh, new boobs coming up in January. Uh, so I will be, I'm taking a little break, but I will be booking again in February.

Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. So as I assume that means it's happening pretty early in January if you're not gonna be available. Available

Inara Starr: Yeah, definitely.

Matthew Holliday: All right, so an our work. Can everyone find you online?

Inara Starr: Anar the slut. I N A R A T H E S L U T. Um, and I'm on [01:10:00] Facebook as star with two.

Matthew Holliday: All right, and with that, we are done. Check out part two in just two weeks. You can find us at the fw photography podcast.com. On Twitter is at FW photography for some period of time until Elon Burns the whole thing down. Instagram at the FW Photography Podcast and subscribe on your favorite podcast app.