NSFW Pod 040 - More Fetish discussion with Ziva Fey - Part 1!

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The full interview is nearly two hours long, this is the first part, so it ends awkwardly.

Matthew Holliday: [00:00:00] Good day everyone, and welcome back to the Not Safer Work Photography podcast. There are thousands of models and photographers creating adult content using modern platforms and taking control of their own creative lives. Today we're finishing our interview with Ziva Fay. We started this back in May, but we ran out of time.

Ziva is a pH, Ziva is a Phoenix based traveling nude model modeling since 2012 as a live nude art model. She currently makes her living as a content creator. How are you doing today, Ziva?

Ziva Fey: I'm doing well. How are you today?

Matthew Holliday: I am not bad. This has been a busy weekend.

Ziva Fey: It's just hot where I'm at.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I think, uh, my sister-in-law lives down in Texas, which obviously is not Arizona, but just close and it's like 108 down there today.

Ziva Fey: Yep. Yep. It's about that. It's around there. Yeah, it's around there.

Matthew Holliday: That's ridiculous.

Ziva Fey: Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: but it's dry heat, right?[00:01:00] 

Ziva Fey: It's a dry heat. Yeah. So it's, it's, in my opinion, more tolerable, more tolerable than humidity. So

Matthew Holliday: So we are continuing our summer of fetish here on the podcast, but before launching into the podcast proper, I would like to do my short shill for Patreon. It's up and every podcast going forward will include extra audio, including this one. There will be a longer version of this podcast on Patreon. So if you'd prefer to spend more time listening to Ziva, go sign up and listen there.

patreon.com/the SFW Photography podcast. Now on to the questions. We talked pretty extensively before how you got into modeling, so we're not gonna rehash that. Go listen to the previous episode.

Ziva Fey: Mm-hmm.

Matthew Holliday: Now, fetish modeling related questions. How do you determine your boundaries in terms of fetishes? You will or won't.

Ziva Fey: Um, okay. So the [00:02:00] way I typically determine my boundaries is by, um, kind of like what you're comfortable with in your regular sexual life. So if there's some things that you are or are not okay with, um, that's kind of typically gonna be your baseline. I, I'm a switch, so I think that people need to, if they're just getting started into it, they need to discern if they are a dom, a sub, or a switch, and then I go from there.

Um, for my, for discerning my boundaries, I would say I started with things that I knew I was comfortable with and then you. Because I know that there's another question about experimentation and stuff like that, so I won't get ahead of myself, So you kinda, you start with what you know you're okay with and like [00:03:00] that you are firmly comfortable with doing with yourself or that you've done in like your private life kind of thing.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, I think I've actually even seen that. A couple models that were on the podcast, I've been watching them transition from art nude models to fetish models over the past year, which has been really interesting cuz when they came out on the podcast, they're pretty strictly art nude only. And over the last few months I've been seeing them move on to only fans and start doing fetish work.

Ziva Fey: Right. Yeah. And there is, um, so there is. possibility of evolving. You know, when you start doing something and you start modeling and you're doing things that you're comfortable with, there is room for growth and experimentation. Um, a lot of people feel, you know, make connections with certain photographers or [00:04:00] models and feel comfortable.

They build friendships with them, build uh, relationships with them outside of the set kind of scene. And I think that allows a safe and consenting adult space to try and experiment and do other things and try things off camera before you try 'em on camera or try 'em on camera. Trade with like somebody you really trust.

If you're like, eh, that made me feel icky. I don't want that to be released. You know, that kind of.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Ziva Fey: yeah. Yeah. I've seen model, I have seen models, uh, grow and like, um, evolve their limits and then also devolve their limits cuz peop humans are fluid, performers are fluid people and there are situations and choices always change.

Um, but I've also seen models not change their limits at all. For example, like my sister, she [00:05:00] hasn't changed her limits at all since she started. She, she hasn't, I mean, the most she's experimented with is doing like bondage in the sense of like fully clothed with handcuffs on, you know? So

Matthew Holliday: Is that,

Ziva Fey: an interesting journey.

Matthew Holliday: is that because of a strong sense of self or just a, like a strong knowledge and I don't wanna say lack of personal growth, cuz that seems negative.

Ziva Fey: Well, I think that it's just like being steadfast in yourself.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: I don't think that it's particularly a bad thing not to not evolve your limits If you're, if you know what you wanna do and you're comfortable with it, I don't think that's a bad thing to not evolve your limits. I actually think that's a good thing, because you're not being pressured by any outside influences, so,

Matthew Holliday: Well, and that's [00:06:00] kind of the follow up question is where does that pressure come from? Do you see a lot of pressure from photographers to evolve your limits?

Ziva Fey: oh, yeah. Um, for photographers and from fans, fans are, I mean, I get just as many messages from fans all the time. And then photographers push limits, um, often, I mean, there's, there's good ones and bad ones. There's a lot of different people in every different industry. And, um, you know, some people push limit. Almost intentionally. And then some people just don't have that level of professionalism, um, quite there yet, which, that's okay. They're learning and growing. It's our job as models to be vocal and be like, you can't,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Advocate for yourself. Yeah.

Ziva Fey: Um, so this happens a lot in this industry. I can tell you that.

You'll probably hear this from another performer. You know, um, will you do X? No, I won't do X. [00:07:00] Well, what if I increase the price, limit the price point by this much? Now will you do X? Yeah. And that unfortunately, um, does sometimes entice like a younger model who's in a, a, maybe a situation that they really need the money or something like that.

So there is like a hard. Sense of like boundary and self with your limits and being pushed, because a lot of, especially the younger you are, uh, the less sure you are of yourself that you might be in a situation where you really need the money, but you're not, I call it enthusiastic consent. You're not 100% down for the thing.

You're only kind of like, yeah, I'll do it. And it's actually dangerous, in my opinion, to be a model who says it's, I call it, you know, [00:08:00] it, you need to have enthusiastic consent. You just can't have like, consent. And what I mean by that is exact. Like when I say you just have to listen to my demeanor and my voice when I'm like, yeah, I, I'll, I'll do it.

Uh,

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: You know, like you're, you can tell that the girl's not sure of herself or that, you know, oh, maybe sh you know, it, it's just in the demeanor.

Matthew Holliday: now is,

Ziva Fey: Oh my gosh. I would love to, I'm just using this as an example. I would love to get fucked in the ass. Oh yes, let's do it. You know, not, that's not me, but just an example.

So there, there's, um, there are things that you can do in this industry to protect yourself. Cause yes, both girls consented in that situation, but the first girl two weeks later might honestly revoke her consent or

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Ziva Fey: yeah. So [00:09:00] in this, um, industry, you have to have a, like, you have to have a lot of discretion and just like be a responsible, discernible adult that can, I honestly, you have to be able to read people decently.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: Yep. Nope. And I see, I see the same thing that, that sort of half-hearted consent, that's the one that's gonna come back and bite you later because that's, uh, one that's gonna ask you to take down the work later. And if you say no, they're gonna sue you, or there's gonna be negative publicity, or you're gonna damage somebody else's life by not taking down the work.

And I don't even know what you do.

Ziva Fey: So yeah, it's, it's, um, and I've seen I've seen producers work with girls and they're, they're like, ah, she, and, and even [00:10:00] myself, I, and I'm like, I haven't given like an enthusiastic consent, like you're still gonna look me in the back of my head. I'm like, you're gonna risk that content. And to me, it's not worth the risk.

I'd rather have all the paperwork. The enthusiastic consent. Um, I also recommend if you are new into this, especially if you're trying to get into the production side, doing a pre and post interview

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: all that is, is a quick 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 minute thing. We say, hi, what's your name? You're here under your own consent.

You're here under your own will. Nobody's like forcing you to be here. You're sober. You're over your own, own mind and body. You know what, today's the date. Do you know what we're about? To film XX and x and get the enthusiastic consent on camera. But then you film for two, four hours, whatever you, you did all of your, [00:11:00] your blowjob, your clown balloon fetish, your inflation fetish, your bondage, you know, whatever.

You filmed that and then now you're, uh, I don't know if you're a person who wants to do paperwork before or after, I personally recommend doing it before.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: Um, yeah. And then typically people do payment after and stuff like that while you're wrapping up and doing like payment and or paperwork, all that jazz, you just get the model to do another quick interview that was like, hi, we just did X and X and x.

You're aware, you're still of your sound mind, you know? Um, you're okay with everything that just happened. You're aware that it's going on the internet. You know, just, um, a quick pre and post interview is a good safety liability kind of check

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Although I imagine the enthusiasm after four hours of filming might be a little lower . It might be like, [00:12:00] oh, I'm tired. I just wanna go home.

Ziva Fey: um, I mean, it depends on the girl I think. definitely depends on the, the, the performer. Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Well accept tired consent at the end,

Ziva Fey: Right.

Matthew Holliday: So you think, you do think it's better to do it for the whole thing? Not for each individual piece of content if you're doing multiple contents.

Ziva Fey: Um, what, what do you mean by that? You mean don't do a little pre and post interview for every, like how I hired the girls for eight videos yesterday?

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Yeah. Not doing an individual one for each.

Ziva Fey: the girls for eight, maybe. I, okay. So I hired the girls yesterday for four hours and I had a matrices set aside on a whiteboard to organize stuff so we could do a 10 minute video every half an hour. So I, yeah. So I could get two vid two, well, there were 10 to 15 minute videos so I could get two 10 to 15 [00:13:00] minute videos done per hour. That was my goal. Four hours, eight videos. Right. Sitting down and, sorry, I just had a brain fart. ask that question again.

Matthew Holliday: So I was asking if it was better to do one video versus a separate video for each piece of

Ziva Fey: Okay. So I hired the girls for quite a few hours yesterday. I recommend, okay, so you're, because I set my time aside and how long it actually takes to do a 15 minute video. And people don't realize, cause 15 minutes is 15 minutes, right? And so if you're thinking if I'm doing two 15 minute videos an hour, I'm literally spending half an hour of the full hour on film.

And then maybe that's another 10 minutes of changing. So I'm kind of eating up the whole time. So you literally might not have five minutes each. [00:14:00] Two girls one. I hired too. So for me, to be honest with you, I would not have the time to get, I promised the girls they would be out of the door by five o'clock.

I wouldn't be able to have the time to get, deliver, deliver my promise of the time expectation if I did an interview for each little thing. That doesn't quite make logical sense to me for efficiency, to be honest with you. If I do, if I were to do a pre and post video at the beginning where I say, we're gonna do Hitachi work, we're gonna do tickling work and we're gonna do foot worship work, those are all the, you know, as long as I make a, I, I personally think as long as I make my expectations clear and transparent, and then don't pull any shit on set where I, I said, we're gonna do Hitachi work, we're gonna do tickling work, we're gonna do foot worship work, and that's what we did.

Then the video should be legal and consensual and all, all hunky dory. But then if I.

Matthew Holliday: All right.

Ziva Fey: Pull some shit, and I [00:15:00] say, we're gonna do Talki work for worship work and tickling work, and then all of a sudden we're doing wedgies. That's not what I'm, I wasn't transparent, you

Matthew Holliday: Right. Yeah, I was,

Ziva Fey: honestly, do what's best for your business and your time and your efficiency.

Yeah.

Matthew Holliday: So do you post that as well, or do you just keep it kind of, all right, so that's just kept in case somebody comes and asks

Ziva Fey: Yeah,

Matthew Holliday: all.

Ziva Fey: well, I know one of your questions was, um, well, it might be kind of good for me to transition into, you had a question that was kind of like, do people ask you to do things that are outside of your limits

Matthew Holliday: well let me, let me follow up. Well let me follow up with what I was thinking there cuz I was thinking that, cause I was like, ah, well if you do the work of the interview, then you probably wanna let people know. So for example, I was thinking of, uh, content that I might shoot related to the podcast or [00:16:00] to photography where you may shoot like voyeurism related stuff.

Like models changing that can look kind of sketchy. Like it looks like a photographer maybe doing something they're not supposed to,

Ziva Fey: right.

Matthew Holliday: whereas. , if you posted the interview, maybe at the end of the clip, like maybe it goes to black at the end of the clip and then like 15 seconds later, then the interview pops up and the model's like, you know, I was fully aware of this.

I can consented to this. I was a happy and, you know, uh, avid participant in this video. Like, then that way you don't have that coming back and being like, look at this sketchy photographer doing this sketchy thing.

Ziva Fey: I mean there are companies who do that, like, so I believe. please don't quote me. I think it's like facial abuse or some, some kind of more violent company that does blowjob stuff. They post at the end, the pre-interview [00:17:00] where they look cute after

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Ziva Fey: cuz the end of the video, the girl's destroyed. So they post for the credits.

Like I'm, this is the name I always make up. I do not know a human with this name. I'm Stacy Mak and I'm here and I wanna be and I'm ready and let's do it. And that's like, and then they have their credits rolling. They don't post the whole thing and they post like, just basically the enthusiastic

Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. Yeah, I think, I think,

Ziva Fey: her name in the day and like where she lives and stuff that's not okay.

So.

Matthew Holliday: but I, I think it does make sense for a certain subtype at least, where it could be misinterpreted, like if it's any kind of forced or,

Ziva Fey: Uh huh

Matthew Holliday: yeah. All right.

Ziva Fey: seen companies use it as a credit.

Matthew Holliday: All right. Interesting. Yeah.

Ziva Fey: a piece. Yeah. I've seen them use it as a credit

Matthew Holliday: All right. Interesting. All right. Well, we can move on on questions rather than just spend the whole time [00:18:00] talking about that Uh, do you find that photographers tend to be very upfront about their shoots or videographers or producers, or do they tend to be shy about what they specifically want to shoot?

Nick comes out over the course of the, the time,

Ziva Fey: Right. So in my experience as Zeva, this is an industry of extremes.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm,

Ziva Fey: So there's no in the middle typically, um, in my experience, that, um, there are photographers who upfront, lots of people are upfront. It's amazing. I appreciate it. I super appreciate transparency. Lots of people have been doing it for a long time.

They have a formula, how they operate their business. They almost, and a lot of them have like almost a copy pasta. I call it a blurb, like a little word document or a paragraph [00:19:00] or, or, um, like last time we discussed how a lot of photographers have a limit checklist.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm. . Oh, I put together my own, uh, one of those after that. That was like one of the first things I did when I got back from Vegas.

Ziva Fey: good for you. Yeah. Yeah. And on top of a limit checklist I've seen like um, I would call it like a fill out forum. And it's where it's like maybe one to three or five pages, and it's actually before the checklist typically. and it's like, are you okay with this and this type of modeling? Do you have exper uh, experience in this and this type of modeling?

Who are your references? What are like, just asking a lot of general audition questions. Honestly, it's a, it's a virtual audition piece of paper kind of thing. Uh, your sizes and then just like general model onset questions. And then, yeah, usually the [00:20:00] checklist is kind of found at the end of that.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Ziva Fey: So yeah, those are very helpful in being upfront.

I appreciate that. I know exactly what I'm getting into.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Ziva Fey: yeah, they'll send their little paragraph or whatever and it's very clear, or I'll have questions and they're very clear about it. They'll answer all my questions to a t don't leave anything open or that it feel is open. Also, when you're a model and you've been doing certain types of.

Shoots for a very long time. Let's say B B D S M, for example, um, B D S M operates differently than a lot of fetishes because like, well, let's think about it. You're, you're tied up and gagged and stuff. So just, just different types of like consent and just safety checks and things like that. And the more you've done it, the more you're just comfortable with yourself and you're like, oh, I know how the rope's tied.

I know this, I know that [00:21:00] you're not, not to be like you're gonna blow through or not care about those safety checklists, but you're just gonna be like, I've seen these before. I know what he means by that kind of thing. Um, however, on the other side, um, to me it's, it's a, a coin toss to be honest with you. I get so many emails saying, and this is all it says, I'd like to book you.

That's the whole email. That's the whole email. I get those so much, the whole hi, great. Look, I'd love to book you. No, nothing else. No other words, . And so I have to like start fishing for information at that point and be like, thanks. Just making up a name. Thanks Chad. Um, I appreciate your message. I would absolutely love to work for you.

What are you trying to book? What time, what day do you have a wardrobe in mind? This, that, this, that, you know, start [00:22:00] fishing or you booking a session? Are you booking a photo shoot? Are you booking a video shoot? Are you looking for a model coaching consultation? Like just, yeah. So typically I'm at a point in my career right now where I know what questions to ask that for myself as in my business and the way I operate to know what I need, like, okay. This is the information I need to know. For me, Zeva to feel comfortable to go to a gig, comfortable, safe, know what the fuck I need to deliver. So , um, yes and no

Matthew Holliday: That's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I've been working on putting together a second sheet that's like all the content ideas and like a choose your own adventure. Like here's the things I want to do. Please select which of them you're comfortable doing so that, so that people can be like, here, you know, where are my limit?[00:23:00] 

Ziva Fey: Right. And that's nice when a photographer have, when a photographer or a photographer has almost like a broad range of limits and content that they shoot. Now, I mean, I'm not, I am not knocking niche photographers. Niche is awesome, but, um, that is nice because it gives more, um, They're, you know, they can work with a wider range of models with different limits and stuff like that.

Matthew Holliday: Well if my goal is monetizing the podcast, then the goal is monetizing, like I was saying, like what I love is the portraiture and my goal is to figure out how to monetize my portraiture and the podcast, and I don't really care how I do it.

Ziva Fey: right? Good for you.

Matthew Holliday: we're gonna do what pays

Ziva Fey: Yep.

Matthew Holliday: All right. We kind of covered the next question. So have there been any dangerous fetishes you've been asked to model?

Ziva Fey: Okay. So yes, I [00:24:00] wanted to touch on this. Um, okay. I, this one I was actually kind of thinking long and hard about, so I, number one, I do wrestl.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Ziva Fey: which that has an inherent danger to itself. Um, you have to have safety and training. I got into wrestling because I have a baseline knowledge of training. I'm a martial artist, I do TaeKwonDo.

I have a black belt. Um, you can get hurt in wrestling. You can get very hurt. So I mean, that's dangerous in the sense of like, you can get really injured, permanently injured, you know, lots arou. I mean, here's an example. I might have said this last time. Wrestling is one of the few fetishes that's on mainstream tv

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Ziva Fey: and like people have seen other people get really hurt or even worse.

So that's a thing. Um, two other [00:25:00] fetishes that I do that could, you know, are considered pretty dangerous and you have to have a really large discernible, uh, level of safety and just be a consenting adult is trampling.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Ziva Fey: I jump on consenting men, And now here's the, the disclaimer, I'm 105 pounds and people who, yeah.

So that's helpful, right? And people who like to be trampled, like to be trampled. They typically are not people who are newbies, like Trampers are trampers. Um, but you have to still, like, I still have to feel the other person's body, figure them out. Be careful of listen to them. I ask what parts of your body, like, can you be crushed and smushed and [00:26:00] jumped on?

And do you have any, I call 'em, I say, no-no spots. Do you have any, no-no spots. Like, do you not want me to jump or step here? And then on that note, um, you know, not to be morbid, but I do trampling. I will, but only on consenting, um, men. It's an incredibly dangerous fetish and illegal, like if you want, and I will and I will trample on non precious or sentimental inanimate objects like grapes or cardboard houses.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm

Ziva Fey: Um, but it is really not okay to like trample, like even snails or like bugs thing, living creatures. Um, and that's what, that's the thing. So that can be really, and I've been asked to do that kind of stuff and I, I won't, that's, yeah, it's, [00:27:00] um, something I get asked to do that is really honestly probably the most dangerous thing I get asked to do.

On a almost daily basis at this point in my career, it's, and I don't know why, because I don't have any content of it. So I'm just like, and I, and then I go, well, yeah, the content, you guys think this is real, but I'm not trying to burst any bubbles. Um, because I have a black belt in TaeKwonDo. I get asked an email almost every day to knock somebody out.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm. Yeah, I hear that's actually really dangerous despite happening in movies all the time.

Ziva Fey: it's r I can't do it. I literally cannot do it for liability and legal reasons. I cannot make another human on purposely no longer be, uh, awake

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Ziva Fey: like consenting and yeah, I just, I cannot do that in a work setting. And I get asked, I mean, almost to backtrack again [00:28:00] and to ask you about people who push limits.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: get. Multiple times and, and daily, at this point in my career, will you knock me out in email for a session? And I say, no. And then they say, well, well if I pay you more, will you knock me out? And it it, you know, and I'm just like, do you guys not understand like the true um, the true lie and Exactly. You know, that's a great point to hear from a male perspective.

Maybe they're just like, cuz it happens in the movies all the time. They're like, this is so cool.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah.

Ziva Fey: bro, we're acting, they're acting, they're, so that is probably the most dangerous thing I actually get asked on a like to do. And it's really interesting because you would think that somebody's asking me to do a dangerous thing that's putting my life in danger.

Like my body in danger per se. Where if somebody's asking me to knock them out, I still think I'm in [00:29:00] danger. , you know, legal danger. So, Yeah. Um,

Matthew Holliday: Interesting.

Ziva Fey: yeah, that has been really real for me, a really interesting journey for me to like, uh, navigate and tell people like, no, I, I cannot make you go. And, and people not taking no for an answer and then getting really upset and really disappointed.

It's been a very interesting journey,

Matthew Holliday: Hmm. That's fair. You already kind of answered the next question two, at least in reference to the stopping or trampoline. Uh, are there clothing specific fetishes you get a lot of requests for? I know that rubber and leather tend to be big ones.

Ziva Fey: Okay. So yes, I wanted to answer this. Um, this one, I liked this question actually. Yes, 100%. I don't really get asked [00:30:00] for latex or leather. I never have actually. Um, however, there are a lot of certain outfits, but I also stay in a certain realm of fetish. Um, I get asked for a yoga, yoga outfits all the time, every tour, every single modeling tour.

I have to bring a yoga outfit,

Matthew Holliday: I did see you have a lot of yoga stuff on your Twitter.

Ziva Fey: uh, always. And I actually, I'm not a yogi, but there are a lot of, um, principles that cross over between martial arts and yoga. So I think that's where people think I can, you know, I am flexible and I can do things like that. I'm just, I don't know the exact, like, that's a downward ego dolphin. Um, I don't know that term, you know, those k, but I can do the thing.

So yoga outfits are probably the main thing I get asked for all the time. Also, [00:31:00] my dok, which. I'm just going to say to the people out there, I do TaeKwonDo. It is called a D. The uniform I wear when I do TaeKwonDo is called a dok. I don't do karate, I don't do kung fu. It's not called Agh. I'm, I'm sorry, but do not call it Agh to me.

If you're gonna talk to me outside of here, don't. It's called a dough box

Matthew Holliday: don't.

Ziva Fey: Um, and I, I really, and I'm like, if you have a martial arts fetish and you call it Agh, I'm gonna not be nice to you.

Matthew Holliday: Is it? Is it incorporated with nudity somehow, like unbelted or something? Or is it just you wearing it?

Ziva Fey: just wearing my full dough box typically, um, is a large outfit, costume. I'm mask for all the time. Almost have to travel with it every.

Matthew Holliday: Huh?

Ziva Fey: Yeah. Oh, so yoga outfit, dok. Oh, secretary outfit. Like pencil skirt and kind of like a, a white [00:32:00] blouse or a button down blouse. Like a, like a silk, you know, something nice with, um, like a pencil, black skirt that's like a solid color.

And then like a little black heel, something that's super secretary ish I wear all the time. That's another one. That outfit also crosses over into teacher.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Teacher librarian's pretty classic.

Ziva Fey: exactly. So it's that like librarian secretary, teacher outfit, pencil, skirt, blouse, pointy, cute small heel, that's not like a stripper heel.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Ziva Fey: Um,

Matthew Holliday: Thick glasses.

Ziva Fey: glasses, I don't wear glasses, but sometimes I get asked for them or fake glasses.

So I do have like a pair of fake glasses, but. . I'm not a glasses wearer, so sometimes it's, it's a different ex, it's just a weird sensation on my face, Um, and then because of my young [00:33:00] look school girl outfit, you know, that classic skirt, bl little top blouse, sometimes that little, uh, it's like a bow tie or a tie.

Matthew Holliday: Mm. Like a uniform?

Ziva Fey: Yeah, exactly. So those are probably for, for me. Well also, cuz I'm a fey, I'm Ziva Fey fairy. I get asked for like woodland nim ferry, cuz I do a lot of modeling new to nature, like in the forest. So I personally, I also have a, I'm Eastern European, like I'm, I'm SL Slovakian, so I have this kind of fairy look.

So I actually do a lot of work with fairy ears on. those are probably me, ze, Eva's top personal fetish outfits that I am asked for. Um, and like I, the yoga outfit's probably the top one. And then my dough box and then the skirt. And you know what, [00:34:00] also certain shoes, not, not a whole outfit to also, um, extend on your question, but like, I get asked for KS all the time, like KS with clean white socks.

Mm-hmm.

Matthew Holliday: That's an interesting one, like a lot of the ones you described. I can totally see where they're coming from, but plain like clean kes with plain white socks.

Ziva Fey: Yeah. A lot. So a lot of fan fetish fantasy has to do with literally a, um, an an experience somebody had in their life and maybe during that experience, cause a lot of it's about how their love map was built. Maybe the, the other human that got them hard or whatever was in the gym wearing a yoga outfit or, you know what, whatever it may be.

Matthew Holliday: No, they've, they've, they've tracked fetishes in men to formative experiences in their early teen years around [00:35:00] puberty, which is middle school to early high school, or alternatively, it's a reverse reversal. of a discussed reflex. So something that's supposed to disgust you is reversed and instead gives you pleasure.

So those are the, those appear to be the two main sources of fetishes.

Ziva Fey: Okay.

Matthew Holliday: So like, like the teacher librarian one, like that's a big source when you're at that age. Like a lot of those make sense. But like the, well, I guess, yeah, maybe, maybe a lot of middle schoolers were kids, so.

Ziva Fey: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Or like they, their love map was formed and they got, I hear so many guys, um, well, humans say that their fetish or certain thing was formed like after school in the gym setting, like, uh, soccer practice, gym, uh, wrestling practice, cheerlead, prac, you know, all that kind of stuff.

Matthew Holliday: it's interesting.[00:36:00] 

Ziva Fey: I love the psychology of fetish. I think it's all super interesting and I take the time to try and understand it because I feel like it'll just help me sell my content better and be a better

Matthew Holliday: Yeah, well then you might find this interesting then, uh, mine is K slash hot Wifeing, and it came from my freshman year in high school. I dated a girl that I had a huge crush on and she broke up with me and dated somebody else immediately afterwards. And I spent my entire freshman year fantasizing that she was hooking up with him because she was, because the guy was talking all about like all the things that they were doing, which may or may not have been true.

I mean, it's freshman year in high school. Who knows how much of that was real and how much of it was just boy bragging. But I spent the whole year thinking about how much she was doing with him that she wasn't doing with me, [00:37:00] and that has built kind of a lifelong. Uh, thing now about every time when I'm dating or with somebody, what turns me on the most is them with someone else.

Ziva Fey: Interesting.

Matthew Holliday: Yep. So I can literally track it back, uh, to a specific thing that happened.

Ziva Fey: That is so cool. That is so cool. I love asking those questions to producers. There. There are a few producers that have hired me and I've been like, so typically,

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Why do you wanna do this?

Ziva Fey: Yeah. And typically male producers, you know, not to be like, they do it for sale for reasons, but they're typically shooting more content that they enjoy rather

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: just general monetization content.

Whereas, um, I call 'em model Graphers. Um, whereas somebody like me who's modeling and producing content produces more general fetish [00:38:00] across the board because we're trying to just hit a lot of different markets and fan bases. And it is a business,

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: you know, we. At the end of the day, like, this is my business and I'm from performer and I can do lots of different acting.

Where a lot of fe like, uh, fetish producers, they do what they like, which there's nothing, no harm in that. Um, that can actually be a good thing because then you're able to sell that content will get those good angles. Know the true thing of the fetish, the true content, what they're looking for. When, cuz before I started understanding the psychology of these fetishes, I will be very honest, I did quite a few self-produced fetish videos that flopped and they still f flopped to this day.

And I still have them up because like, uh, I'm not gonna try and not make money, I guess, but like, nobody buys 'em, [00:39:00] nobody.

Matthew Holliday: Well, no, that, that's, that's funny cuz that's what I was thinking of when I was trying to put together a list of stuff that I could do to monetize the podcast. And I'm like, well, I guess I could do a balloon related video, but I have no idea what they would want . So, yeah, in, in terms of my list of stuff, I'm like, all right, what do I know,

What can I, what can I do?

Ziva Fey: yes. And so for me, I have like a, a kind of a handful of fetishes that I'm proficient in this point because I've been hired for them a lot. I've done them a lot on screen. Um, I've, I've talked to the fan base a lot and there are a few that I have like studied, like feet, feet, wedgies, bondage, um, inflation, vore.

I have studied quite a few, but there are also other ones where I'm like, I still haven't figured it out yet. Like, I'm gonna just be so honest. One that I haven't figured out yet is, um, [00:40:00] fingernails tapping. That's a fetish. and I just haven't figured out the angle. Like if they want the closeup of your finger tapping, if the, I, I know that your demeanor needs to be stern and like disappointed, but that's kind of all I've been able to crack so far.

Matthew Holliday: Hmm.

Ziva Fey: Whereas like, uh, feet that, okay, I was doing feet all wrong when I started. I was, I was showing the tops of the feet. It was just, I didn't understand

Matthew Holliday: That's interesting. I'm, I'm curious about that cuz one of the things that I'm looking at doing is doing like a camera of the model's feet while we record the podcast, thinking that fans might wanna see that while we do the podcast. So tell me more.

Ziva Fey: Um, so I've talked to a few foot fetishes online, in person, all this. and I can't speak for every foot fetishes, right? Like everyone's unique, tons [00:41:00] different things. But I guess is what I've noticed is the general consensus is that the soles of the feet, like the wrinkly soles of the feet are where it's at rather than the tops or the sides of the feet. And I, I think, well, I was told actually that like it's just the way the skin looks and the way the wrinkles of the skin fold and the way like a human body's skin folds, like around the breast and like the genital region, the souls of the feet are much more like the skin looks more like an intimate part of your body, if that makes sense. Actually the same with armpit skin too, cuz it's why. It's not why, but it's part of the reason why a lot of people have an armpit fetish. Um, yeah. There's also, I'm probably not gonna [00:42:00] say the word right. There's like, there's something called like your, it, it's, it's the way you, so you form your own love Mac. Um, it's H u

Matthew Holliday: I'm not familiar with Love Map. I might have to look that up.

Ziva Fey: and then there's something, okay, yeah. You'll have to look at the love. Okay. The love map. And then there's this weird thing in your brain called a humunculus and it's like a representation of a small human being. And it's like, okay, if you look it up, you'll be like, what the fuck? This human looks crazy.

Like, it looks disgusting. It's all, um, the portions are weird. And what it's supposed to be showing is like what parts of the human body are like, the most important. It's like what we, what parts of the body, our [00:43:00] brain like associates and like how important they are. And it's not a hundred percent true. It's like a really old like Greek kind of way of thinking, but there are still like lots of different, I mean there's no exact science of like, this is why this person has this fetish, right?

So yeah, I definitely actually recommend looking up a love map to explain it really quick, but not go into super detail is what you said earlier, how it's a formative memory. All it is is formative memory. So like let's say as a male, , you're crawling around on the floor and, um, I know that lots of people reach, like, get turned on for the first time at lots of different ages, and it can be pretty young to, to older.

And let's say you're, you're a little boy and you're crawling around the, the floor on, on a shag carpet, um, at five years old or whatever. And like just the carpet and just crawling [00:44:00] around the floor, just natural things happen and all of a sudden you're hard. Um, and then maybe like the first thing you see is your mom's feet.

Like, cuz you're on, you know, just crawling on the floor down there. That might be the very first thing that starts your love map. And now you might be on the path to liking feet. So the, yeah, there are lots of weird, cool fetish things to be aware of. Study, try and know the exact like angles, timing. The thing, which sometimes it's like, like for you norm, more normies out there,

Matthew Holliday: Hm.

Ziva Fey: when you're watching porn, if you're like, what's the thing in the fetish that gets 'em going?

You know, for people in porn, it's the pop shot, that's the, the, the Dun climax.

Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm.

Ziva Fey: um, for other videos, there, there are other things like, for example, so I [00:45:00] don't talk about it forever, in the wedgie videos, the climaxes, the panty, getting fully ripped off the person and being aware of that and getting those angles of the ripping right off the butt and then being embarrassed and in pain and uh, you know, things like that.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. For, uh, hot wife cook stuff, it's frequently the, like the first connection or when she takes off his pants. Like, especially if it's a really well done one where they have the intro video and like the prep stuff ahead of time. It's not even necessarily the sex. It's like the, cuz they'll, a lot of times they'll do like a prep work.

where, you know, she's getting ready for the date and sometimes, you know, he'll be caged, sometimes not, depending on if there's a humiliation bit in there. But then like he shows up and there's a little bit of awkwardness and Yeah, it's a, it's a lot of prep. Uh, yeah.

Ziva Fey: Like the, um, it's like the script, it's the, the scriptural work [00:46:00] is kind of what gets you guys going.

Matthew Holliday: Yeah. It's, it's the anticipation, it's the, uh, cuz typically with a lot of, so there's, there's differences between the kuck and the hot wife. But a lot of times in the, in the Kuck universe, the wife has all the power. So frequently she goes out and leaves him at home. So there's a ton of anticipation while he's waiting until she comes back and then she comes back and there may or may not be cleanup.

But like he misses out on the whole thing. All he has is his imagination, and then maybe she'll tell him about it and maybe she won't. So it's, it's, it's a very much a mind game there.

Ziva Fey: Okay. I like that. That's very cool. Yeah, and see all of them are different.