NSFW Pod 037 - Getting Pretty Fetish-y with Raven Vice

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[00:00:00] Matthew Holliday: Good day, everyone. And welcome back to the not safe for work photography podcast. There are thousands of models and photographers, creating adult content, using modern platforms and taking control of their own creative lives. Today we're interviewing Raven vice Raven is a 19 year old adult fetish performer living in Las Vegas. 

She is known for her out of the ordinary content with a dark Gothic twist. How are you today? Raven? 

[00:00:31] Raven Vice: I'm doing good. 

[00:00:33] Matthew Holliday: That's exciting. I almost said ordinary content. 

[00:00:35] Raven Vice: definitely. None of that here 

[00:00:37] Matthew Holliday: would not be good. That would be the opposite of what we were looking for. All right. So since, uh, you mentioned that you're adult fetish performer, our topic today is extreme fetish work as a model. 

We've talked fetish work in the past, but it's been pretty superficial. It's been handcuffs, bondage feet. I feel like those are all kind of the entry places for model end to fetish, because they're super easy. Everybody wants, I feel like every model I've talked to wants to do fetish work and they always, when you ask 'em about it, they always want bondage. 

They always want ChAARI. 

[00:01:12] Raven Vice: rope has become very common, whether it is like strict bondage ties or pretty ChAARI just for photos. I have noticed a growth in the popularity of bondage. 

[00:01:24] Matthew Holliday: Feet less. So, but still pretty common. But this one I think, is going to get dirty. If it doesn't get dirty, I'm gonna edit this out. And you, as the listener will never know if you don't like dirty. I don't know that I would listen to this one. I'm gonna edit it down and try to keep it to an R rated level. 

But when you're talking fetish, sometimes that's hard. Unintended, there will be an unrated version of this podcast available on Patreon or only fans. So check out the website down the road. If you want the uncensored content, when those are ready to release. Kind of worried that when I edit this down, it's gonna be like 20 minutes, but consider yourself warned. 

So I always like to start with how you got into modeling. 

[00:02:04] Raven Vice: So as soon as I turned 18, I started my only fans and I started with solo content. And then from there I actually had somebody message me on Tinder. 

[00:02:18] Matthew Holliday: Hmm 

[00:02:19] Raven Vice: And he was a porn performer and he noticed that I had, and only fans in my Tinder bio. And he was like, Hey, would you like to film sometime? And I'm like, what the hell? 

Who is this guy? And he gives me his Twitter and I check his Twitter and he's got like 70,000 followers. So I was like, okay, I guess let's film something. So that was my first porn shoot. And since then, I've just been going crazy. 

[00:02:51] Matthew Holliday: so I've always wondered. And I've never, this is not on the question list. So feel free to tell me to fuck off, uh, because I've been thinking about this, I've been thinking about kind of the dichotomy of the photographer and the model and the exhibition is voy your dichotomy and you can't obviously can't make a broad generalization, like all models are exhibitionist. 

Cause some models just want to be paid and they don't care. They're like, whatever, I'll take off my clothes. If you'll gimme money, like they're just, they're just not wired to care about that. Right. And not all photographers get sexual gratification out of taking pictures. They're like maybe it's art depreciation, maybe they're getting paid. 

Same thing. 

[00:03:31] Raven Vice: True. 

[00:03:32] Matthew Holliday: Would you say then that you're an exhibitionist specifically since you were waiting until you turned 18, it doesn't sound like you were like, I can't wait to get paid. It sounds like you were like, I can't wait to show off 

[00:03:43] Raven Vice: I, yes, I would definitely consider myself an exhibitionist. I love to be seen. I love to be admired. I, I love the attention. 

[00:03:53] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. What do you think the ratio of that is for models? Do you think it's like 10% exhibitionist, like 20% exhibitionist. And I don't mean, like, I don't mean like loud and proud exhibitionist necessarily. I get that it's gonna be a spectrum. There's gonna be people that are like quietly exhibitionist and they wanna get paid. 

right. 

[00:04:12] Raven Vice: I would probably say it's about 30% to 70%. 

[00:04:17] Matthew Holliday: I was gonna ask if you started off in fetish work, but it sounds like you didn't start off immediately in fetish work. Did you do any, when you were doing the solo stuff and only fans, were you doing any fetish related content or was it mostly just like solo masturbation content 

[00:04:28] Raven Vice: It was mostly just solo masturbation. I also did some like piss play videos. 

[00:04:33] Matthew Holliday: Oh, jumping right into that. 

[00:04:34] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:04:37] Matthew Holliday: all right. 

[00:04:38] Raven Vice: um, that was one of my most popular requests was piss play videos. 

[00:04:44] Matthew Holliday: Is that because nobody's really doing it. Like it's still taboo enough. Like there's some things that aren't really taboo anymore. Like we already, we already talked about bondage. 

Bondage is not taboo at all. It's so flipping mainstream, right. Feet is getting to mainstream display still pretty taboo. 

[00:04:59] Raven Vice: It's starting to become a little bit more normal if you wanna say, but you still can't sell it on a lot of places. So that's the big problem that it has to be either disguised with certain words. 

Like you have to use words like water sports. 

[00:05:18] Matthew Holliday: I didn't realize that's why that was flag you. Oh, I didn't realize that was made to conceal it. Yes. Yeah. I kinda like the stepdad stuff is because you can't. Yeah. If you use, if you use the I word, uh, it's funny. I was researching the monetizing, the podcast stuff, and I saw that Patreon will remove your podcast if it discusses the I word, which I don't thinking about it. 

I don't even know if I can say the word. Can I just say the word or is that enough to flag it? Like, will there be automated things? That'll be like, oh, they said the word remove. 

[00:05:44] Raven Vice: Yeah. I didn't know. That was 

[00:05:46] Matthew Holliday: yeah, me neither. That's why, that's why when I said it, I was like Patreon versus only fans. Like, I don't know that I necessarily want to put podcasts up on only fans, but Patreon might remove it if we get explicit. 

True. So, yeah, I dunno. Um, that's interesting. So right into PI play 

[00:06:02] Raven Vice: mm-hmm 

[00:06:06] Matthew Holliday: so why into PI play directly? Was that something that was a big end of your personal life? And you were like, eh, why not? Or was it something that you were looking at and you were like, well, this is niche and I'm willing to do it. Therefore, 

[00:06:17] Raven Vice: personally I have a giant piss kink and it started when I was pretty young, actually 

[00:06:27] Matthew Holliday: Um, 

[00:06:27] Raven Vice: I would like look up videos on YouTube and just be like girls peeing, and then I'd be sitting there and I'm like, why does this make me feel like I have to pee? And as I got older, I realized 

[00:06:40] Matthew Holliday: I was like, shit, I have to go to the bat. I'm just kidding. 

[00:06:44] Raven Vice: So yeah, I just started making money off of it cuz I knew I already enjoyed it. 

[00:06:49] Matthew Holliday: That makes sense. Yeah. Do you, that's interesting. I was reading a book called uh, the pragmatist guide demon sexuality, and they were suggesting that a lot of kinks are the disgusted reflex inverted. So that's interesting because a lot of them are things like scat things like piss, uh, K is jealousy, inverted. 

Um, it's just the, I dunno, it's just interesting cuz they were talking about cuz one of the, one of the theories of fetish development, at least for boys is that it's something that happens in. 

[00:07:20] Raven Vice: your 

[00:07:21] Matthew Holliday: Like 11 to 14, you range some formative experience that happens to you that pushes you into this. But then they were saying that it's actually kind of a, there's, there's two kinds of fetishes. 

There's one that happens because of a formative experience, which is stuff like feet. Um, and then in exhibitionism, voyeurism, and then there's one, that's an inversion of what should be a feel like, like for, for piss it's the feeling of disgusted. Right. But it's inverted into pleasure. Yeah. So it's interesting. 

[00:07:48] Raven Vice: Yeah. I never thought about it like that. 

[00:07:51] Matthew Holliday: I, I don't know if it's true. It was in a book, so obviously true. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh, I imagine that was interesting, um, as like a teenager and like being 18, trying to explain to boyfriends or girlfriends. Yeah. Being like, Hey, I'm into this 

[00:08:07] Raven Vice: still a struggle where I'm like, Hey, like, would you like to pee on me? And they're like, what? 

[00:08:18] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. All right. we'll move on. Well, I, you retweeted, you me sent official on December 30th, 2021, and I'm quoting my sources now. who said porn wants basic and boring. Sorry. I am not that I know you didn't tweet it, but you retweeted it, which implies support. 

[00:08:40] Raven Vice: Yes. 

[00:08:41] Matthew Holliday: Uh, what do you think porn is looking for in talent these days? 

[00:08:44] Raven Vice: I think it's the same that it's always been. 

[00:08:47] Matthew Holliday: even like the nineties, like the, 

[00:08:49] Raven Vice: Maybe not. Okay. Maybe we've become a little bit more flexible, but I still feel like a lot of like mainstream porn sites. They want that. Picture perfect image of a woman 

[00:09:04] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, the 36, 

[00:09:06] Raven Vice: Yeah. They've got like big ti and a big butt and blonde hair and lips and all that. 

No tattoos. That's something that has really hurt me is my tattoos. Um, 

[00:09:18] Matthew Holliday: I identified you, by the way I saw your leg and was like, oh, I think that's her 

[00:09:21] Raven Vice: That's her. Yep. But yeah, I feel like porn still just wants this plastic and fake image, unless you're creating content by yourself, then you create whatever you want using whatever you have. 

But I do find that a lot of guys do prefer that cookie cutter type of woman. 

[00:09:45] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. Yeah. I'm yeah. Thinking about porn is fantasy. I, I, I feel like a lot of the. 

[00:09:54] Raven Vice: quote 

[00:09:55] Matthew Holliday: Unquote professional foreign companies. Like they tend to make up the women in the same way. They all have similar makeup, even though like their hair may be different and their body's may be slightly different and their Heights may be different. 

They're all made up in the same way. They're all dressed in similar ways. They're all sleeping with the same generic kind of looking dude that all in the same, you know, Beverly Hills mansion. I know it's not really literally in Beverly Hills, but all like kind of looks it's all the same open floor plan, airy, 

[00:10:21] Raven Vice: White couch. 

[00:10:22] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. yeah, yeah. Uh, yeah, they're all selling a lot of the same, the same fantasy. That's a, that's a big reason why I really can't stand like a lot of that mainstream porn stuff. Cuz none of it seems real. 

[00:10:37] Raven Vice: That's another reason why I started making my own. 

I was like, this is not working for me anymore. Let's go. Let's get crazy. 

[00:10:46] Matthew Holliday: how would you differentiate between extreme and standard fetish? Like what's what's the line that you draw? Is it like fluids? Is it. 

[00:10:53] Raven Vice: it's kind of like, where can I sell it? 

[00:10:56] Matthew Holliday: Mm. That sounds fair. Like only fans versus scap book or yes, 

[00:11:00] Raven Vice: like many vids versus a scap book because there's lots and lots of restrictions. 

They're so picky about it. Like they'll one minute, be fine with one video and then one minute not be cool with it, but yeah, my thing is it, it separates where you can sell it. 

[00:11:20] Matthew Holliday: so, 

[00:11:21] Raven Vice: yeah. 

[00:11:23] Matthew Holliday: gotcha. That's fair. I was gonna ask later about, uh, why you're on scap book, but I think you just answered the question. So is it specifically like bodily fluids 

[00:11:32] Raven Vice: for the most part? 

Yeah. 

[00:11:35] Matthew Holliday: weird that come is okay. 

[00:11:37] Raven Vice: You know, some places, I think only fans, you're not allowed to like sh technically in their terms of service, you aren't allowed to see any bodily fluids, whether it be cone spit. Whatever. It's really weird. 

[00:11:55] Matthew Holliday: Speaking of spit, I feel like that's another thing that's been showing up. 

Let people spitting in each other's mouths. That's another thing I feel like I've been seeing a lot of lately. 

[00:12:01] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:12:02] Matthew Holliday: Huh? 

[00:12:03] Raven Vice: I personally like that a lot. 

[00:12:07] Matthew Holliday: degradation thing then. Yes. Yeah. All right. I guess that's related to the P yeah. So as the, so actually then I guess that question is, since you, like, both of them, is the overall kink, the specific piss or is it just the degradation in general? 

[00:12:22] Raven Vice: I think for me personally, it's bodily fluids, but, um, the degradation is always nice too. 

[00:12:31] Matthew Holliday: it's just like a 

[00:12:32] Raven Vice: let me be your toilet. 

I 

[00:12:34] Matthew Holliday: mean, oh, that's fair. Interesting. Do you get more demand? So I've seen from your Twitter, you've done some standard boy girl stuff as well, right? 

[00:12:42] Raven Vice: yeah. 

[00:12:43] Matthew Holliday: You're like, eh, 

[00:12:45] Raven Vice: it's not the most fun for me, but 

[00:12:48] Matthew Holliday: like, you just wanna fuck me. Could you please piss on me first and call me a slut or something? Like 

[00:12:53] Raven Vice: fun 

[00:12:55] Matthew Holliday: smack me around a little bit. 

[00:12:56] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:12:57] Matthew Holliday: Come on. 

[00:13:01] Raven Vice: Where 

[00:13:01] Matthew Holliday: that I never thought were gonna come into my mouth today. all right. I assume that means you get more demand for your kinky stuff as opposed to the vanilla stuff. 

[00:13:10] Raven Vice: Yeah. I feel like my kinky stuff definitely sells more, but I still have a good audience for my vanilla boy girl content, which is nice because sometimes I just, I want to take a break. I need to film an easy video, so I just get fucked. 

And then I leave instead of a fetish shoot, which I have to take showers and prepare and all that kind of 

[00:13:34] Matthew Holliday: stuff and aftercare and yeah. 

[00:13:36] Raven Vice: So 

[00:13:37] Matthew Holliday: yeah, 

[00:13:37] Raven Vice: I have a good audience for both. 

[00:13:40] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. And do they overlap at all or not at all? 

[00:13:43] Raven Vice: Not really. They tend, if they like the freakier stuff, they'll only buy the freakier stuff. 

And if they only like the 

[00:13:49] Matthew Holliday: tape stuff, 

[00:13:51] Raven Vice: buy that. I sell my vanilla boy girl videos for a lot less than what I sell my finished videos for. 

[00:14:00] Matthew Holliday: Does it cost about the same to make them? I, I mean, I get, like, if you're making them, you're not really, you don't have to pay yourself necessarily, but when you bring in, if you bring in male talent, do you pay them or is it TF. 

[00:14:09] Raven Vice: TFD? 

I don't pay my male talent 

[00:14:11] Matthew Holliday: All right. Do you give them percentage or do you give 'em a copy of it for them to sell 

[00:14:15] Raven Vice: or yeah, they, we each get a copy of the content. I'll share photos, everything that comes along with it. The other performer will get that. Ideally. Yeah. I would love to pay my mail talent. That would be super cool, but I don't know how it is. 

[00:14:33] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. We're just talking about how it's . Yeah. 

[00:14:35] Raven Vice: Most of the time the male talent reaches out to me. So I take that as a, okay. They wanna film with me. It doesn't, I don't see that they want much in return other than the content. Gotcha. 

[00:14:47] Matthew Holliday: Do you, um, How do you screen? 

Well, first of all, I assume you probably get more than enough male talent reaching out to you. 

[00:14:55] Raven Vice: oh my God. I'm drowning in dicks. 

[00:15:01] Matthew Holliday: What is that? Have you seen that gift of the girl with her mouth open and just like all the hard times 

[00:15:07] Raven Vice: dogs that's me every day, looking through my ideas. 

[00:15:14] Matthew Holliday: How do you pick? 

[00:15:15] Raven Vice: So I hate to say it, but follow count does mean something to me. and I most likely will not work with somebody if they haven't already worked with somebody that I know. 

So I'll look through their Twitter, see what kind of content they make, see who they've worked with. Look at their clip stores. That's pretty much as far as my screening goes, get a 

[00:15:41] Matthew Holliday: a test. 

[00:15:43] Raven Vice: and just see that there's a reference from somebody that I dressed. Gotcha. 

[00:15:50] Matthew Holliday: So since this podcast is directed towards people that are trying to get into content, if somebody, uh, how would you recommend somebody that did not have, let's say somebody was starting from day zero today's day zero. 

They've they've heard this podcast and they're like, by God, I want to get into this. And I want to shoot with Raven vice. How would they go about doing that? 

[00:16:15] Raven Vice: Preferably through my booking email. um, a Twitter message is cool too, but it just seems more professional over email. I need to see your availability. I need to see a test before I even talk about setting anything up. 

Um, some pictures of you. 

[00:16:40] Matthew Holliday: Good pictures, not bathroom selfies guys. 

[00:16:43] Raven Vice: don't gimme a picture of you in your bathroom mirror. I will delete your message. Um, put some effort into what you're gonna show me, 

[00:16:52] Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm 

[00:16:53] Raven Vice: ideally. It's nice. If you have a location and you can tell me where that's at. So yeah, just basic marks like that, making sure you're safe, making sure you have a spot, making sure we can make something good. 

[00:17:07] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Hmm. What about, uh, what types of spots do you normally shoot at? 

[00:17:12] Raven Vice: It's mostly hotels, but I also, I also 

[00:17:16] Matthew Holliday: cleanup afterwards, but , that's true. 

[00:17:19] Raven Vice: Yep. I know there's also a lot of like shoot houses around Vegas, like, like, uh, browsers. I know has a couple houses here and I've shot in a couple of those, not four browsers, but in the houses. 

Um, but yeah, mostly 

[00:17:36] Matthew Holliday: It's an interesting business model Sydney. And, uh, Cassie mentioned that too. And I was just thinking that it's like an Airbnb, but for photography. Yeah. Like I was just wondering about the business model, how much that costs to do and how much they rent them out for. 

It's like a little studio, but not a studio. 

[00:17:50] Raven Vice: Yeah. They've got like four houses and you book it for the day and you can do what you want in 

[00:17:56] Matthew Holliday: it. Set it on fire. just 

[00:18:00] Raven Vice: sure they wouldn't appreciate that. But if it makes for good content 

[00:18:04] Matthew Holliday: then the other, yeah. The male talent's dressed up as a firefighter and they come in and then the backdrop is a flaming house in the background. 

It's so realistic. I wonder 

[00:18:12] Raven Vice: if there's an audience for like fire porn. 

[00:18:15] Matthew Holliday: there's gotta be, there's gotta be the question. Is, are they willing to pay enough to, for the cost of burning down? Like why is this clip $8,000? Because I have to sell a hundred of them to buy another house. Rent's insurance. Well, the renter's insurance pay. 

If they find out that we set the house on fire to make, 

[00:18:36] Raven Vice: they find the video 

[00:18:37] Matthew Holliday: and the video turns out somebody at the insurance companies into that shit 

[00:18:41] Raven Vice: Yeah. Right. They, 

[00:18:43] Matthew Holliday: They came across 

[00:18:44] Raven Vice: it on their own searches. 

[00:18:46] Matthew Holliday: That's funny. Speaking of you mentioned, we talked about the aftercare and the thing. So when you're filming BDSM work, that's dangerous. 

Uh, what safety precautions do you take? 

[00:18:56] Raven Vice: So 

[00:18:56] Matthew Holliday: although I don't know if dangerous is the right word for what you do, what you do is like more nasty than dangerous. So 

[00:19:03] Raven Vice: it's, it's different for everything that I'm gonna perform. So say I'm doing a puke video. I'm gonna want to drink a lot of liquids. I'm gonna wanna fuel myself beforehand. So I don't pass out. 

[00:19:18] Matthew Holliday: All right. Uh, what's your standard aftercare routine? 

[00:19:22] Raven Vice: I always love a good meal and a shower 

[00:19:26] Matthew Holliday: and. 

[00:19:28] Raven Vice: probably some weed not gonna lie. 

And I usually like to do my aftercare by myself. Um, I know some people like to have a companion there with them, but I'm a loner. I like my own company and I think it's the most comforting, so yeah, just relaxing with some food and yeah, music is always nice. 

[00:19:53] Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. I've recently discovered my favorite thing in the entire world is a dark shower with music. Yeah. And like just di and just like sitting there for like 25 minutes, 30 minutes. And I guess that's a big no-no here in the desert. 

[00:20:08] Raven Vice: We're in a, 

[00:20:09] Matthew Holliday: a drought. 

[00:20:10] Raven Vice: drought's 

[00:20:11] Matthew Holliday: incredibly irresponsible. 

It's okay. I'm doing the same thing. When you're screening producers, is it mostly people filming POV stuff these days? Or are there still a lot of people doing like actual crews and separate cameramen and stuff like that? 

[00:20:27] Raven Vice: Or I have actually never shot a POV video really. Um, 

[00:20:33] Matthew Holliday: I didn't pay nearly enough attention to your work. 

[00:20:35] Raven Vice: Sorry. I see mostly companies that are just one person or couples actually I've noticed become a lot popular where like they're both performers, but they take turns running camera for each other. 

And I think that's super cool. I always love to see a woman on set, but yeah, it's, I've seen mostly crews or single individuals 

[00:21:05] Matthew Holliday: How big is the usual crew? These days? Two people through people 

[00:21:08] Raven Vice: three to four. Whether it's. So it's usually like guy on camera guy doing backup camera and then assistant. And then usually there's just like a floater who does extra. 

I don't usually know what that guy is there for, but I've seen those guys 

[00:21:28] Matthew Holliday: The cumper. 

[00:21:29] Raven Vice: yeah. Yes. 

[00:21:33] Matthew Holliday: So really, I'm sorry. I've been thinking a lot about the economics of this after talking with Gerald on Saturday, cuz he was talking about one of the reasons I asked him about if he ever hires, uh, male talent these days and he says he usually doesn't and he doesn't even do the POV shoots much as much these days. 

[00:21:48] Raven Vice: Mm-hmm 

[00:21:49] Matthew Holliday: Um, because a big part of why he doesn't hire male talent is trying to find people and schedule people. Right. It's tough, tough enough. Finding a schedule where him and the, and a girl can both find time, but then trying to find a third person and then thinking about like finding a crew of people and then trying to like justify the cost of the video clip to pay for all those people. 

Although I guess I assume you're paying them way less than you're paying the talent. So they're probably getting like a hundred bucks total yeah. 

[00:22:18] Raven Vice: I have noticed that like the female gets paid like way more than anybody else. And I think it's crazy cuz like sometimes those guys are putting in more work than me and they're getting paid less. 

[00:22:35] Matthew Holliday: well it's cuz every guy thinks he's a porn star secretly very, no matter what they say, every guy secretly is like looking and be like, I could do that. 

[00:22:41] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:22:42] Matthew Holliday: there's a there's there's a, I was watching that video. Somebody, I think it's, I think his name's like producer Frank or something or producer Keith or somebody he's got it pinned on the top of his thing where it's like the three guys that think they can be porn stars and it's like a documentary style thing. 

And like none of the three of them can get it up, like in front of the camera with like the crew of people watching them. And they're all, they all like start off coming in strutting about like, you know, it's like, oh yeah, I've got a nine inch Dick. You know, my girl loves it. This is gonna be amazing. And then he just like, 

[00:23:13] Raven Vice: yep. Not every man is made for porn and 

[00:23:16] Matthew Holliday: not every girl 

[00:23:16] Raven Vice: is made for porn either. 

[00:23:18] Matthew Holliday: that's fair. That is fair. 

[00:23:21] Raven Vice: just because you got genitals, it doesn't mean you should use 'em on camera. 

[00:23:28] Matthew Holliday: so speaking on that subject, that actually goes back to a big part of what you're talking about when you're screening. Uh, cuz if male talent has previous work, then you can look at their previous work and see how it, uh, Hey, see how it goes. And this goes back to my, my earlier question as well about if, uh, someone's trying to get in. 

I, I meant to follow that question up with this. Maybe I'll edit this and through the magic of editing, make it seem like this question happens right afterwards, because you talked to, when I asked you about how they would get into it from day zero and you responded with how they would do it directly with you, but let's take that in a more general sense. 

[00:24:03] Raven Vice: Okay. 

[00:24:04] Matthew Holliday: Uh, some guy decides he wants to get in. He thinks he's got what it takes. He's probably wrong. uh, like what should he do to try? Like he can make some solo content. Sure. But how does he transition that into making. um, like, does he, does he, does he find like, like lower level amateurs to work with? Does he find local people to work with? 

Like he probably doesn't immediately start me. Well, a lot of them do start messaging people like you, but , that's probably not the right way to do it. Yeah. 

[00:24:32] Raven Vice: I know people have had a lot of success starting out their career on Fe life. They find other people that are willing to make content on there that aren't necessarily porn stars, but it still gets them a little bit of a portfolio. 

So yeah. Working with local people, people you already know just to show what you can do instead of hitting up these big hitters and just having them reject you over and over and over again, start small. 

[00:25:01] Matthew Holliday: kink. 

[00:25:02] Raven Vice: Yes. Unless you really like that, 

[00:25:06] Matthew Holliday: Hmm, 

[00:25:07] Raven Vice: but yeah, starting small is definitely important. We can't all 

[00:25:12] Matthew Holliday: be 

[00:25:13] Raven Vice: approached by a porn star 

[00:25:15] Matthew Holliday: 70,000 followers on Tinder. all right. Uh, how do you meet other talent? Mostly 

[00:25:22] Raven Vice: Twitter. I've had really good success with Twitter. Um, I go to events sometimes and meet with other people. Uh, parties are fun, um, except you can't make content at the parties, but it's nice to meet people. Um, 

[00:25:42] Matthew Holliday: what type of parties are these full of adult performers that you can't make content at? That's not what I heard about the adult industry. I thought it was all fucking all the time, 

[00:25:50] Raven Vice: so, okay. So yeah, there are the type of parties where you go and you can make content, but it's a little questionable due to there being drugs and alcohol around. 

[00:26:03] Matthew Holliday: Mm. 

[00:26:04] Raven Vice: And I personally will not make content in an environment where people are intoxicated. 

It's unsafe for everybody. There are some content parties where they keep that out of it. And those are the ones that I tend to go to. 

[00:26:26] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. Yeah. That was something that, uh, has come up before about drugs and alcohol on set. 

Yeah. Around more amateur content producers. But I feel like I interrupted you with something though. 

[00:26:41] Raven Vice: yeah, just don't like making content under the influence. 

It can get everybody in trouble. Like if it goes good filming, that's one thing, but it can totally come back on you later on somebody comments and be like, oh, that chick is drunk and people are gonna start to notice. And that just looks bad on everybody. We are working at the end of the day. It's still a job. 

Whether you're fucking 

[00:27:07] Matthew Holliday: you're 

[00:27:08] Raven Vice: filling out paperwork, it's still a job and you still have to be professionals. 

[00:27:13] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And that kinda goes back to a lot of the, uh, a lot of assault allegations and stuff about whether you can consent or not. 

Right. When you're, when you've been drinking. Speaking of consent, I talking with Zeva and then talking with Gerald, I heard about a new concept to me. Uh, consent checklists. Yeah. Have you been using them? 

[00:27:32] Raven Vice: I, for certain shoots, yes I do. 

[00:27:35] Matthew Holliday: Is it specific producers that use them then? 

[00:27:37] Raven Vice: Um, I personally have my own. Sometimes they will ask for it, sometimes they won't and I'll just send it with my test and be like, this is what I'm cool with. This is what I'm not. 

Um, they usually really appreciate it because then they don't really have to have a long lengthy conversation over your limits. It's all right in front of 

[00:27:57] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:27:58] Raven Vice: So I think those are really, really helpful. And I think more people should start using them. 

[00:28:03] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Gerald and I were actually talking about it after the podcast, unfortunately, after we, after we closed out the podcast. So I'm shoving it in here. now into these other podcast. Uh, that actually one thing that we didn't, one thing that I didn't consider is that it has applications and non fetish shoots too. 

Yeah. Because one of the super awkward stages, when you're talking with a model, you know, like an art nude model is trying to figure out like what they're willing to do. Right. As you're like, I have this concept, but you're always like, you know, models on, uh, model mayhem will put, like I do fetish and erotic, but I don't shoot nudes. 

And you're like, so what does that mean exactly. why we like, or they'll say I shoot nudes and I do erotic, but that's alright. So does that mean like that you'll shoot Playboy style nudes. Does that mean that you'll shoot open leg nudes? 

[00:28:55] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:28:57] Matthew Holliday: or does that mean that, you know, you'll masturbate for the camera, like erotic is a wide or that you'll shoot toy stuff, right? 

Like that's a pretty, so it occurred to me that it's even a good job. I mean, not a good job. It's probably a good idea to put together one, even for vanilla shoots. Mm-hmm, where you can send a model and be like, you know, I will shoot art nude. I will shoot Playboy style nudes, which is very close to art nude. 

Like there's probably only like a stylistic difference there. You know, I will shoot open leg nudes. I will shoot, you know, various things. So that way, cuz it's always, I'm a little socially awkward. Um, 

[00:29:31] Raven Vice: I feel that, 

[00:29:32] Matthew Holliday: and that's always like the worst that's like this is the second there's, there's two parts to the conversation. 

Three part three, three parts of the interaction with a model that I have a lot of trouble with. Number one is the pay because I never, now that I've, now that I've talked to a lot of models, I'm getting a much better feel for like what's acceptable and what's. 

[00:29:47] Raven Vice: not mm-hmm 

[00:29:48] Matthew Holliday: Uh, number two, is that, that conversation like boundaries beforehand, cuz on one hand you're always afraid. 

Like if I go too far, she'd be like, what the fuck is this creeper? 

[00:29:57] Raven Vice: Yeah. And then bash you on the internet. 

[00:30:00] Matthew Holliday: um, but less worried about that, but more because I can always adjust it. Like if she's like I'm not comfortable with open leg then fine. I, I, I, if I'm approaching a model it's because, uh, I think they've got something special that I think would work well with my work. 

Like ju just cuz they don't wanna do open leg. That's fine. We can do, we don't have to do open leg there's I have other shoot ideas that don't involve open leg. We don't have to do that. Um, and then number three is like the actual, that first meeting, you know, we always a little nervous. I'm always like, oh, 

[00:30:26] Raven Vice: always a little awkward. 

[00:30:27] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Um, so, but having a checklist like that I think is super useful in breaking the ice there because then you can say, Hey, this particular shoot that I want to do doesn't necessarily involve any of these. But as he pointed out, like it gives you ideas for future shoots. Like maybe the first shoot. You only want to do a art scene, nude portrait shoot. 

But she checks off or doesn't cross out these other things. You're like, oh, in the future I can approach her cuz frankly, I mean like a portrait, shoot's a great get to know you to start with anyways. Right. So something like that. So anyways, it was just super interesting. Um, and I am in love with the idea, 

[00:31:00] Raven Vice: It's very smart. 

[00:31:02] Matthew Holliday: Super. I wish I'd come up with it myself, but I am not that smart. So we can 

[00:31:07] Raven Vice: all be, 

[00:31:08] Matthew Holliday: uh, can all be brilliant. Oh, well, all right. So, uh, I scrolled through your Twitter's feed and your site, and I basically have a giant list of fetishes here that you have done videos on, and I'm gonna call them out one by one so that we can talk about them just to kind of see what's going on here. 

And what gave you the idea? And I'm curious to know, like, which of these would you consider successful and like you would want to do again. So number one, pie in the face, cut by a clown. What was why I don't. Why just going on here. 

[00:31:48] Raven Vice: Um, okay. So me and Nikki Sequoia, we were like, let's film, like a clown video. It's almost Halloween. Like, that'd be fun. So she built this carnival set 

[00:32:00] Matthew Holliday: and she built a set for it, 

[00:32:01] Raven Vice: it. Yes. A whole set balloons, backdrop, everything. 

It looked awesome. We did glow in the dark makeup and it was super cool. Um, so we did this video where I go to the circus with my boyfriend and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. And then it cuts to my boyfriend finding me fucking a clown in the back while he's waiting for me to come out of the bathroom. 

And it's one of those, like, you can watch, but you can't touch. So the whole time it's from the boyfriend's point of view and yeah, you're just getting CED by a clown. 

[00:32:40] Matthew Holliday: I feel like the best K videos are always filmed from the boyfriend or the husband's point of view. 

Yeah. I feel like when there's a, when there's like a fourth party filming it, it like removes you from the scene cuz you're like, somebody else is filming it. Somebody else is in the room. Yeah. This is not real. 

[00:32:53] Raven Vice: I'm not the one watching. Yeah. 

[00:32:55] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:32:56] Raven Vice: But yeah. Um, yeah. Then we ended the video with some cream pies to the face. We were actually nominated for an award for that one. 

[00:33:09] Matthew Holliday: that's amazing. I, I feel like I've seen a lot of content. Creators are big into clowns. 

[00:33:18] Raven Vice: Yeah. I have noticed a big rise in popularity in clown porn. I don't know where that came from or like who that necessarily appeals to, but it's fun to make 

[00:33:38] Matthew Holliday: She's got like the clown makeup on your face and the clown drops her pants and this clown makeup on his Dick too. 

[00:33:45] Raven Vice: it's got like a little red nose. Yeah, 

[00:33:50] Matthew Holliday: the problem is then he pulls his Dick out and the nose is gone. 

[00:33:53] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:33:54] Matthew Holliday: like, someone's gotta get that out. 

[00:33:58] Raven Vice: yeah. So that's my experience with clown porn. Oh 

[00:34:02] Matthew Holliday: no. 

That's how you should have done it with the K. He pulls it out and the nose is gone and he is like, K, you gotta go get the nose. 

[00:34:08] Raven Vice: Oh, that would've been so good. 

[00:34:12] Matthew Holliday: All right. That's my contribution to the clown cock board. 

[00:34:17] Raven Vice: a good one. I 

[00:34:18] Matthew Holliday: might say. 

[00:34:20] Raven Vice: yeah. I don't necessarily understand the appeal, but a lot of people love 

[00:34:26] Matthew Holliday: You know, I've seen that as a definition for fetish. Right. Cause if you look at it and you go, but why then you're like, that's a fetish and it's not yours. there we go. Yeah. 

[00:34:34] Raven Vice: That's a really good way to think about it. 

[00:34:36] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Cause if you're like, you're like, yeah, I'm there. You're like, Nope. That's yours, videographers and photographers that want to tie you up and use vibrators on you or have sex with you. 

Is that two separate groups or one single group? 

[00:34:50] Raven Vice: Two separate. 

[00:34:52] Matthew Holliday: interesting. 

[00:34:53] Raven Vice: Yeah. Like I know, um, the website that I worked for the most recently, he does not do any type of penetration or anything like that. He strictly does bondage and four orgasms. His thing is with those giant, like Hitachi magic wands, um, tie you up real tight and put that thing on you and not let you go anywhere, but actually I've only ever been contacted by maybe two or three producers that make that kind of content. As far as like bondage sex goes. There's not a lot of places you can sell it. 

[00:35:36] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I haven't seen I've. I think I've only seen it like once. 

[00:35:39] Raven Vice: Yeah. It's hard. You can't have like all four limbs bound. I think that's what it is with penetration. So it would have to be a producer that has their own platform. And there's just not a 

[00:35:53] Matthew Holliday: of them, you almost need like a, like a stool or something or a bench. Yeah. Cause most of the normal bondage stuff, there's no real way to actually. Yeah. Which, which goes back to kinda what we're talking about was that the last interview shit, 

[00:36:06] Raven Vice: So goes 

[00:36:06] Matthew Holliday: back to kind of the, the thing about where fetish is not necessarily always about sexually gratifying yourself. 

It's not always about ejaculation. Would that make fetish photographers frequently? Safer to shoot with than photographers that want more sexual stuff. Like, cuz they're looking for a very specific thing as opposed to like trying to have sex with you or 

[00:36:29] Raven Vice: I, yeah, I am personally a lot more comfortable with filming non-sex fetish work 

[00:36:36] Matthew Holliday: mostly 

[00:36:37] Raven Vice: because most of the time it's just dude, behind the camera filming the girl. 

[00:36:42] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Or 

[00:36:45] Raven Vice: yeah, mostly for fetish work that I've done. 

It's just guy behind the camera filming me. I have done a couple. I don't know if I would quite consider. Gerald's content fetish, I guess it is like the step 

[00:36:58] Matthew Holliday: bondage stuff and he does the Fe stuff. Yeah. 

[00:37:01] Raven Vice: So that's kind of like in the middle because he won't do like penetration, but he will like finger you, which is still to me, more comfortable than penetration. 

[00:37:15] Matthew Holliday: So when you're speaking with a photographer or videographer that wants to tie you up and put you in a place where you really have difficulty, like right now, if I tried to do something that you didn't want to do, you could run for the door right. But if you're tied up or handcuffed, how do you do additional screening there? 

Or is there additional screening you mentioned before that you usually only work off recommendations from other people? So you have a strong screening process normally, but is there any additional precautions you take when it's bondage? 

[00:37:47] Raven Vice: Not really, to be honest. Um, 

[00:37:51] Matthew Holliday: I've 

[00:37:51] Raven Vice: shot for three different bondage sites. The first one, actually, I was just a huge fan of his work, shiny bound. I was a huge fan of his work, 

[00:38:02] Matthew Holliday: I did a bunch of stuff with him, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And your older stuff last year, I think you had a bunch of posts. Yeah. 

[00:38:08] Raven Vice: yeah. Cuz we used to date. So that was that. 

[00:38:10] Matthew Holliday: I didn't wanna mention that, 

[00:38:11] Raven Vice: but yeah. um, but yeah, with him, I found him on Twitter and I was like, wow, this is really cool. 

So I subscribed to his only fans, the first person I ever subscribed to on only fans. And I was looking through his stuff, saw some people that I recognized and I messaged him where he located Vegas and we set up a shoot and then we shot again and again and again, I did some bondage work with Gerald. I didn't do any of the bondage, my first shoot with him. And then I got comfortable enough to do it on the second. Yeah. As far as additional screening goes, not necessarily, it just takes like a certain kind of person for me to trust. 

[00:39:00] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Well, it sounds like for shiny bound, it sounds like he was pretty well known. 

Yes. And for Gerald, you didn't do it. The first shoot and Gerald seems pretty well known too. He's so he's been doing this since a while. 2003 or so was an 18 years. So. And neither of these guys were people that were like randomly off the street, like, Hey, I wanna tie you up. 

[00:39:18] Raven Vice: Yeah. You might. Yeah. For bondage, establishment 

[00:39:21] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I wanna tie your petite ass up. See, that was a callback for your tweet. about being called. 

[00:39:28] Raven Vice: think. That's so funny. I'll be on like porn hub and I'll come across one of my videos and it's like petite SLU. And I'm like, I'm taller than the male talent in this video. Like 

[00:39:42] Matthew Holliday: all right. Next one. This is one that you posted recently, jerking off in the Goodwill parking lot. 

This one looks like a fairly boring one for you. Just jerking somebody off in a car in a parking lot. Is it a new FET you're trying to break into? 

[00:39:56] Raven Vice: So actually I just met this guy who his whole thing is public content. 

[00:40:02] Matthew Holliday: I did, I looked over his dream actually. I was like, yes, 

[00:40:05] Raven Vice: he, he gets real risky with 

[00:40:08] Matthew Holliday: it's 

[00:40:08] Raven Vice: crazy. 

[00:40:10] Matthew Holliday: Um, 

[00:40:11] Raven Vice: but yeah, I, I think it's fun. So we've been dabbling in a little bit of public stuff and I have a video to release with him. 

So we'll see how that sells. Um, 

[00:40:24] Matthew Holliday: All right. Do you, uh, how did you decide to do it? Just cuz you met him and he asked you to do it or were people requesting it or 

[00:40:30] Raven Vice: no, I just, I met him. We were hanging out and I was like, you wanna take a video of me jacking you off in the car? And he was like, hell yeah. So I jacked him off in the car. 

[00:40:41] Matthew Holliday: This is all being 

[00:40:42] Raven Vice: I was drinking Boba. And there's like clips in it where you guy like cheers the camera and we're having a good 

[00:40:49] Matthew Holliday: So this is like a mix of exhibitionism and board ignored because you're kind of like having my 

[00:40:57] Raven Vice: I'm looking at the camera, just dragging off 

[00:41:00] Matthew Holliday: at the, 

[00:41:00] Raven Vice: of my eye. 

[00:41:03] Matthew Holliday: have you ever done any board ignored style stuff? No. Interesting. 

[00:41:07] Raven Vice: I feel like, I don't know. I feel like that's a more dominating type thing. 

[00:41:15] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Who's being dominated. I guess the person who's, who's being, who's doing the ignoring. I guess the question is, is that the cuz it's usually the woman who's ignoring the guy and the guy's pawing at the girl, but it could go the other way around, but, Hmm. 

I don't know if that would sell. 

[00:41:29] Raven Vice: I don't know. 

I don't think I've ever seen it the other way around. Interesting. I don't know. We might have to try that out. I'm always down to try everything. Even if it doesn't sell, if one person buys it, one person enjoyed it. So that's cool. I 

[00:41:46] Matthew Holliday: we were talking, yeah, we've been talking about, we were talking about that in a and all these, so that's a downside to running three interviews on one weekend, right. 

Is cuz now they're all kind of running together in my head and I'm all. But we were talking about like the shotgun approach and like trying to put out a whole bunch of content, like one of everyone to kind of see which one sells and kind of figure out where your niche is. And yeah, that'd be interesting to do like AB testing. 

Like here's a board ignored where I'm being ignored and like he's pawing at me. Here's a board ignored where, you know, he's on a meeting, you know, he's on BI big business meeting, like, oh, and you know, the sales revenue numbers or whatever. But then that's kind of like a business meeting king too. Yeah. 

Like he's doing his best to ignore you while you're like paw at his pants and like trying to, oh, 

[00:42:28] Raven Vice: I don't know, 

[00:42:29] Matthew Holliday: I could do that for the podcast. I could do, uh, like in the future, if I did a podcast thing. I do like podcast porn. Oh, board ignored. Like I'm trying to podcast you like stop 

[00:42:42] Raven Vice: and they're trying to hold a conversation and yeah, 

[00:42:45] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. Maybe that's the monetization. Maybe that's the, we maybe I, I schedule like a three hour session and we actually record the podcast and then we spend like 30 minutes recording, various scenes kind of afterwards where we are like, repeating, like, all right, let's go back to, you know, here's, here's what I said. 

Here's what you said. And then anyways, we'll talk about the, we'll talk about podcast brainstorming. I'm getting distracted K porn. Uh, you did a K scene. Yes. I think you only did one that I saw. 

[00:43:12] Raven Vice: Yes, 

[00:43:13] Matthew Holliday: it was interracial. I noticed almost all cook point is interracial 

[00:43:16] Raven Vice: mm-hmm 

[00:43:18] Matthew Holliday: I don't know why that is. 

[00:43:19] Raven Vice: I'm not sure why either. Um, but yeah, I've only ever seen interracial cup porn. 

Um, but I know that like a lot of cooks are not into the whole interracial thing, but I've never seen anybody switch it up. So I don't know. Yeah. 

[00:43:42] Matthew Holliday: It's not professionally. There's a lot of amateur stuff. That's not interracial, but okay. 

Like the professional stuff is almost all interracial, so that's interesting. Yeah. Did that, uh, scene get much pick? 

[00:43:53] Raven Vice: I have not put it out yet. 

[00:43:54] Matthew Holliday: again, then that's another one where there's a, that's a teaser. 

[00:43:57] Raven Vice: Yes, I did have lots and lots of fun filming it though. My first cook scene ever. Um, With Don prince. 

[00:44:06] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Been seeing his name pop up a lot lately. Is he fairly near to the industry or did he just like start getting traction 

[00:44:13] Raven Vice: I think he is been around for a little bit, but I think he's just now starting to get on some sites. So his name is getting out 

[00:44:20] Matthew Holliday: there? Yeah, it was weird. I been seeing his name a lot in the last, like three or four weeks. 

Yeah. 

[00:44:26] Raven Vice: Interesting, 

[00:44:27] Matthew Holliday: Interesting plain in the mud and getting hosed down for shiny rigor.com or shiny rigor. It's that doesn't seem like a fetish to me, but I guess it is somebody paid for it, obviously. 

[00:44:40] Raven Vice: well, yeah, so we were out in Florida with misdemeanor and Sergeant miles. 

[00:44:46] Matthew Holliday: such a great name. 

[00:44:47] Raven Vice: Yeah, I know. Right. 

[00:44:49] Matthew Holliday: God 

[00:44:49] Raven Vice: damn. And 

[00:44:50] Matthew Holliday: such a great name. 

[00:44:51] Raven Vice: so they live out on this farm and they had a pig pen and Sergeant miles was like, you know what, if I tilt up the pig pen and made it all muddy and we throw the girls in there. 

And Shane's like, that might be pretty cool. So then he gets all three of us girls on board, um, ties us up in a hog tie, throws us in the mud. Um, he's picking up handfuls of mud and throwing it in our face we're ball gagged. They're dragging us around. It was lots of fun. I actually have permanent scars from that shoot. 

Um, so I'm reminded every single day of it. Um, but yeah, that was for shiny bound.com. I never got to release that content, so I'm not quite sure how it sold. Um, but it looked super cool and it got some good feedback on Twitter. Interesting. 

[00:45:53] Matthew Holliday: You can sell God damn near anything if you just put pretty girls in it 

[00:45:56] Raven Vice: for real. 

[00:45:57] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:45:58] Raven Vice: Huh. Literally us flopping around in mud and pick shit and. It worked? 

[00:46:05] Matthew Holliday: you know, I was halfway into it until he said big shit I was like, I was like, you know, I think I'm okay with this. 

And then you're like, uh, you 

[00:46:15] Raven Vice: don't know how much pig shit was actually in there. There hasn't been pigs in there for a little bit. So we're just gonna hope 

[00:46:20] Matthew Holliday: there a week 

[00:46:21] Raven Vice: there wasn't that much. 

[00:46:23] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, cages and puppy play puppy play is another one that seems to be having its day. There's that girl on Twitter or something. 

That's been really public with her puppy play. I dunno if you've seen her, it doesn't look like I've seen no recognition in your eyes. 

[00:46:39] Raven Vice: I see. Lots of puppy play, so yeah. I'm not sure exactly who you're referring 

[00:46:44] Matthew Holliday: Oh, she's she's she's like been made a meme and like Reddit in 

[00:46:48] Raven Vice: Oh, okay. Yeah. Now I know 

[00:46:49] Matthew Holliday: what you're talking about. 

Know, so like there's someone that's actually like got like mainstream, like puppy. 

[00:46:54] Raven Vice: Yeah. Um, 

[00:46:56] Matthew Holliday: so is this like the next is this the next feet play like 

[00:47:00] Raven Vice: I I've noticed pet play in general has become really popular at like kiddies bunnies puppies. I've seen lots and 

[00:47:11] Matthew Holliday: lots bunnies of it. 

[00:47:12] Raven Vice: I, I think social media has had a lot to do with that because a girl can post a picture on Instagram or a video on TikTok of her in puppy ears. 

And it'll be completely normal to somebody. Oh, it's just a girl in puppy ears. Unless somebody enjoys puppy play, then it's like, oh, it's a puppy girl. So you can put this fetish on a lot more spots without it looking like a fetish. 

[00:47:47] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. That's actually sounds like, so the feet thing, do you, did you grow up watching? 

What the fuck was that? Nick Nickelodeon show what 

[00:47:58] Raven Vice: I Carly 

[00:47:59] Matthew Holliday: I Carly, yes. yes. Like with 

[00:48:02] Raven Vice: all the foot cameos. And that was really weird. Yeah. When I was watching it, I thought nothing of it, but now watching it again, I'm like, wow. 

[00:48:17] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:48:18] Raven Vice: These young girls being told to like put their toes in their mouth for TV and they don't, they don't get it. 

And I remember, 

[00:48:27] Matthew Holliday: wonder how many kids, like young adults now are like, oh, I love toes and I love feet now. I don't know why oh 

[00:48:33] Raven Vice: yeah. Cause Nickelodeon was just forcing toes down their mouth. Yeah. I remember Nickelodeon ran like a contest where you would like draw smiley faces on your toes and send in pictures of your feet. 

That is where I was like, 

[00:48:51] Matthew Holliday: oh my God. Oh 

[00:48:54] Raven Vice: God. Cuz it's like these. Little girls watching this show and he's just getting all these pictures of these girls feet. 

[00:49:03] Matthew Holliday: Wow. 

[00:49:04] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:49:05] Matthew Holliday: Wow. He's like, I, I don't even have to pay for it anymore. 

[00:49:08] Raven Vice: Yeah, it's scary. 

[00:49:12] Matthew Holliday: Oh, wow. I dunno where to move on from there. 

[00:49:16] Raven Vice: yeah. 

[00:49:17] Matthew Holliday: Um, other than to just be horrified, quietly horrified. How many fetishes do most people have? Do you think, do you think most people have like one fetish or two fetishes or like a strong fetish and a weak fetish or 

[00:49:30] Raven Vice: I think most people have that one thing that really gets 'em going and then other little things that excite them or other little things that add on to their main fetish, but there are people out there that are just like, oh, I love this. 

And I love this and I love this and I love this. But 

[00:49:50] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. 

[00:49:50] Raven Vice: Most people, they do have their one thing. 

[00:49:53] Matthew Holliday: They love everything. Is it that they like that they have those fetishes or they just like you, do you think? 

[00:50:00] Raven Vice: I don't know. I've always said that I have a fetish for fetish. 

[00:50:04] Matthew Holliday: Hmm. 

[00:50:05] Raven Vice: So if it's weird, it's probably gonna turn 

[00:50:08] Matthew Holliday: your fetish is taboo. 

Your fetish is doing things that you're not supposed to. Yes. Yes. 

[00:50:13] Raven Vice: So when people ask me, like, what is your fetish? I don't necessarily have like an exact answer for them. I just say my fetish is fetish. 

[00:50:22] Matthew Holliday: Have you ever met any of your fans? Um, in person? No. Is that for better or worse? 

[00:50:31] Raven Vice: You know, sometimes I getting these offers from fans and I'm like, you know, how bad could it be? 

But other times I'm like, oh, that's very scary. Don't do that. Um, so I've just kind of stuck with my hesitation and not done any type of meets with my fans. If I find one that, you know, shows me that he is really down for me, you know, he's subscribed to my fans. I sites, he tips me all the fun stuff. I may be open to it, but we would have to build a little bit of something first. 

[00:51:16] Matthew Holliday: I've definitely seen some who did it. I think Riley Reed did a fuck a fan once she like a contest Uhhuh, 

[00:51:25] Raven Vice: Brandy love does 

[00:51:27] Matthew Holliday: love does them. And I can see where it would generate a lot of fan interest. mm-hmm 

[00:51:33] Raven Vice: I've been thinking about it. 

[00:51:35] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Yeah. But then on the other hand, like if you get a good fan, like it's probably fine. 

Yeah. If you get a bad, crazy fan 

[00:51:45] Raven Vice: Yeah. It's 

[00:51:46] Matthew Holliday: gonna be fine. 

[00:51:47] Raven Vice: Yeah. Men are scary in general. And when they fan over you, it makes them even more aggressive most of the time. So it, yeah, it's just hard to feel comfortable enough to meet up with somebody who fans over you. 

[00:52:04] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And especially when, who they're fanning over is someone that doesn't necessarily exist. 

Right. It's it's your screen persona. It's your, although it sounds like a lot of your regular persona comes through in your screen persona. 

[00:52:19] Raven Vice: she's still a little different though. 

[00:52:21] Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hmm. Yeah. That would, if it was a lot different, that'd be super weird. Yeah. You're like, they like grab you by the throat and they're like, all right. 

You're like, no, no, that's not what I really like. Yeah. But. 

[00:52:33] Raven Vice: yeah, that would run into a lot of issues. 

[00:52:36] Matthew Holliday: I saw a tweet where you're at exotica. 

[00:52:39] Raven Vice: Yeah. 

[00:52:40] Matthew Holliday: What's that like? I've never been, 

[00:52:42] Raven Vice: I went to exotica, Miami and exotica, New Jersey 

[00:52:47] Matthew Holliday: What a place for exotica. Oh, that's what I always think of. When I think exotic is New Jersey. 

[00:52:53] Raven Vice: It brought the freaks. Let me tell you that. Um, so Miami, I went as just like a, a fan, I guess you would say where I just like bought the ticket and walked around and met people and stuff. But then in New Jersey, I was a part of shiny bounds booth. I had my own separate little section. 

Um, that was really cool. Actually. I got to hand out my business cards and, um, I got some new subscribers, new people interested in me. It brings a very. Vast crowd of people. Interesting. So you have like the creepy guys who wanna like book you for, in call that night, 

[00:53:41] Matthew Holliday: Oh, which interesting, which 

[00:53:44] Raven Vice: you're not allowed to do. 

So they just come up in your ear and they'll whisper and be like, oh, I pay you this much for, and you just got, no, that's not what I'm here for. And then there's the, the porn Watchers who want to just take pictures of you, take pictures with you. I found that part super flattering. I've never had anybody like, want to take a picture with me or wanna pay to take a picture with me at that. 

And then there's the other industry people that you get to meet. I met photographers, uh, people who do interviews. I met other talent. It's a really, really good place to network. 

[00:54:28] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I was thinking about attending to try and meet people for the podcast. So I 

[00:54:31] Raven Vice: think that would be a good idea. 

[00:54:33] Matthew Holliday: So, but I'll take, so your advice do not proposition people there for in call correct. all right. I think I can handle that. Any other advice to not Beke just kidding. Honestly, 

[00:54:46] Raven Vice: just 

[00:54:47] Matthew Holliday: don't stuff. Any socks in my pants? I think I 

[00:54:53] Raven Vice: um, me personally, I love to be given a business card 

[00:54:58] Matthew Holliday: Do you need to make business cards for the podcast? Actually, 

[00:55:00] Raven Vice: Yes. Yeah, pretty much. Um, I worked with a couple people that I met at exotica business card, follow them on Twitter. And that was that, but yeah, I really enjoyed exotica. If you're gonna go, I suggest you go to Chicago, actually. 

I've heard that's the, the biggest, best one that brings out the most people. 

[00:55:24] Matthew Holliday: that's. Uh, Cassie said that there were a lot of performers that lived in Chicago, specifically trans performers, which kind of makes sense. Chicago's such a like Chicago hair being there. It's probably super easy to fly to wherever shoots are happening. 

[00:55:37] Raven Vice: Yes, I know. Yeah. Chicago is popular. Seattle's fairly popular for model. Um, of course, LA New York, Miami, Tampa. I've noticed a lot of girls are moving out there and there's a lot of fetish work out there actually. 

[00:55:56] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. So 

[00:55:57] Raven Vice: I'm looking to make a trip back out to Florida to get some more work in 

[00:56:01] Matthew Holliday: hot and sticky. 

[00:56:02] Raven Vice: That's the only part. And the bugs are big 

[00:56:05] Matthew Holliday: gross, gross. Gross. Is that a finish? Like blood draining, like mosquitoes. 

[00:56:11] Raven Vice: Oh, huh. I get eaten alive by mosquitoes out there. 

[00:56:16] Matthew Holliday: So you just need to find somebody, you just need to have somebody to like follow you around with the camera and be like, you're like, no, no, right here, I need you. Cause like right here is not fetish. Right, right here is fetish. I'm like picking him up and placing them 

[00:56:28] Raven Vice: they need to go to get the good shot. 

[00:56:30] Matthew Holliday: my God. Some guys like, no, that's not dirty enough. I needed it on your ass. God, God damn it. Fucking men. 

[00:56:38] Raven Vice: Yes. No matter how much you give them, they'll always want more. 

[00:56:43] Matthew Holliday: I mean the mosquitoes sucking isn't that enough? 

[00:56:46] Raven Vice: I'm literally giving my blood for you. 

[00:56:49] Matthew Holliday: You know what though? That's I should get closer to the microphone. 

That's a fluid and now you can't put it on all only fans. True. You can't put anywhere. So. Yeah, cuz uh, there was some porn performer that was listening to a podcast where she did a horror slash porn film, where they used fake blood and they got it removed. It was removed everywhere because you can't have porn and blood together. 

Even in a fake, she was like, she was like, we had like five gallon buckets of blood. Like it obviously wasn't. Yeah, it was so much blood that it, we would've had to like eviscerate humans and like there's no way that it was real blood. 

[00:57:23] Raven Vice: Yeah. They go a little extreme with their removing of videos. I know like fake weapons are even like, like a finger gun. 

They'll take your video down for a finger gun. 

[00:57:36] Matthew Holliday: You can't have somebody like break in and like fake attack somebody with like a I'm gonna shoot you. just a 

[00:57:43] Raven Vice: single, like watch out. Oh, your video's gone. Yeah. I saw somebody. They did like fake dynamite and it was literally like cut up pool noodles with like a core wrap around it and a 

[00:57:54] Matthew Holliday: clock 

[00:57:55] Raven Vice: and they took it down 

[00:57:58] Matthew Holliday: but how else am I gonna get my like woman in distress, tied up on the railroad tracks 

[00:58:04] Raven Vice: S heroin video. So she was like struggling to get out and there's this bomb and they didn't like that. 

[00:58:10] Matthew Holliday: See, I was thinking more of like the, like the guy twiddling his mustache next to the woman tied up on the railroad tracks with like the, like the dynamite. See 

[00:58:18] Raven Vice: thought I love that kind of porn. You just can't find it that much. 

[00:58:24] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. The, the old 1870s times. 

[00:58:26] Raven Vice: Yeah. I've always wanted to do horror porn. There's actually a website called horror porn.com and it's my favorite. 

[00:58:36] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, they had to start their own site cuz they couldn't do blood anywhere else. 

[00:58:38] Raven Vice: put it anywhere else. 

[00:58:41] Matthew Holliday: there's not enough cowboy porn out there. 

[00:58:44] Raven Vice: One 

[00:58:44] Matthew Holliday: of my favorite. One of my favorite porn videos growing up was called pussycat ranch. 

It's an old 1970s video. My dad had a copy of it and his like thing. And we used to like take the VHS, I tape downstairs and have to like rewind it back to the right place. But yeah, it was an old, uh, it was based in a brothel and like the old west. 

[00:59:02] Raven Vice: So it's just like Cowboys, 

[00:59:04] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Like Cowboys and like, you know, like brothel workers wearing like old fashioned dresses and stuff and a real soft spot for like 70 style porn. 

I don't know what it is, but yeah. 

[00:59:15] Raven Vice: I don't think I've seen much. 

[00:59:17] Matthew Holliday: I know there's, there's like a, there's like a filming stuff. I'm, I'm actually, I'm actually super curious. I wonder if there's like a generational divide. Like if you look at like, like men in their forties, men in their thirties, men in their twenties, and like, look at like what their favorite type of porn is, it'd be really interesting to look at like how like different porn affects. 

Like, I don't know. I dunno if it 

[00:59:38] Raven Vice: I get where you're going with that. Um, I feel like that has to have something to do with it. Like what you first found yeah. Is something that you like, 

[00:59:50] Matthew Holliday: uh, Raven, where can everyone find you online? Now? 

[00:59:52] Raven Vice: I am on Twitter at Raven vice, but the a and the, I are replaced with Xes. 

[01:00:00] Matthew Holliday: my God 

[01:00:03] Raven Vice: and I am on Instagram at my chem princess. And then on mini vis as my chem princess. 

[01:00:13] Matthew Holliday: Hmm. Why my chem princess 

[01:00:16] Raven Vice: Cause my favorite band at the time was 

[01:00:18] Matthew Holliday: my 

[01:00:19] Raven Vice: romance. And I'm a princess, obviously. 

[01:00:24] Matthew Holliday: thank you for coming on the podcast. Of course and with that, we are done. Check us out at the NFW photography podcast.com on Twitter is at NFW photography, Instagram at the NFW photography podcast. 

And subscribe on your favorite podcast.