NSFW Pod 035 - Adult Video Production with Gerald Saunders

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[00:00:00] Gerald Saunders: [Mic bleed] Doing pretty good. Always busy, but I'm glad we're doing this. This is a perfect day to do it actually. 

[00:01:58] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. It's 111 degrees outside. 

[00:02:00] Gerald Saunders: Well, we're inside, but yeah, I just meant 

[00:02:03] Matthew Holliday: it's 

[00:02:03] Gerald Saunders: timing for me to 

[00:02:04] Matthew Holliday: it. oh, I gotcha. All right. Yeah. I, uh, I was planning on going hiking tomorrow and I looked at the weather and I was like, Nope, that's a terrible idea. 

[00:02:13] Gerald Saunders: Even in a couple of days, when it gets back down to 90 degrees, it'll still be a terrible 

[00:02:17] Matthew Holliday: day. this is a terrible idea. Yep. All right. Our topic today is producing adult video work. Uh, I know we typically focus on photography, but frankly, our, our topics are generally both sides of the lens and lenses are involved in video work too. 

Gerald started in photography, but moved to video. I believe it was about 20 years ago. 

[00:02:38] Gerald Saunders: Yeah. I started, I've been a photographer actually my whole life, like literally since I was 13, but I started doing adult work in around 1995. 

I started shooting for some, I started shooting the things that ended up in adult magazines. 

[00:02:52] Matthew Holliday: So this is a topic we've discussed with three models, but we have never discussed it from the perspective of the producer or the videographer slash photographer side. So we're diving in from the opposite side this time, we always like to start with how you got into photography and you've been doing it for quite a while. 

You talked about how long you've been doing it. And you said, uh, it's an interesting story about how you specifically got into it. So what's the, what's the superhero origin story 

[00:03:18] Gerald Saunders: well, so I'd really been a photographer my whole life since really since high school and for a while I worked in the record business and then I worked at camera storage, teaching photography and selling camera equipment and whatnot. 

And in the very early 1990s, like 1991, I moved from Florida to Atlanta and was working in a camera store. But I knew some people in the record business that were there. And there was a girl that I knew that worked at a record store and she was super cute. And we had talked about possibly doing some swimmer photography because I was the photographer. 

One of those swimmer magazines that you see in the stores that are just trying to sell their bikinis, but they want real girls as models. Yeah. 

[00:04:02] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:04:03] Gerald Saunders: So 

I was in the record store that she worked at one day buying tickets to go see a concert. And she and I started talking about that while I was in line. Cuz the tickets had not gone on sale yet after I talked to her about swimmer photography, this girl taps me, me on the back of my shoulder. Hey, you're a photographer. Yeah. Well, when we get done buying our tickets, can you wait for a second outside so we can talk for a minute and I'm thinking, oh no, somebody wants me to shoot their wedding, but oh no, it turned into, Hey, I'm a stripper at the gold club and I need to send I need, I swear I'm a stripper at the gold club and I need to get some pictures sent into this magazine that they do. 

The magazine was called gallery and it was a similar magazine to hustler that has hustler's beaver hunt that you can send your pictures in to try to get to be the girl of the month. So that's what she was doing at gallery. The gallery thing was called the gallery girl, next door contest. I'm not sure who started at first gallery hustler and none of them, but either who 

[00:05:04] Matthew Holliday: to have some copies of that when I was like 15. 

[00:05:07] Gerald Saunders: Well, maybe it's the one I was in or one, my work 

[00:05:10] Matthew Holliday: with. Interesting. That's funny. so girl sends  

[00:05:12] Gerald Saunders: I, so most of those pictures, and of course there weren't phone cameras back then, but most of those pictures were taken with disposable cameras and they look like crappy, like your boyfriend or whoever took 'em or your neighbor. 

So we go out to this waterfall where I'd been shooting swimmer photography forever in a day, little small kit and hidden waterfall in Georgia. So we go out there and do these nudes and they're like great looking professional pictures. So you can just imagine, guess who won for that girl of the month? 

Poof. I'll try to keep this short, but basically they were gonna take her up to shoot with their pro photographer to shoot their layout. But they asked her to ask me if I could shoot their layout because they just assumed I did it all the time, which I basically did, but that was the first time I'd ever shot nudes in my life. And so I came up with this concept to shoot a layout because of course I had seen adult magazines. So we went and shot this layout and they used it as her thing in the magazine. And ultimately she won not the girl next door of the year, but she won the, for the runner up all because she tapped me on the shoulder. 

[00:06:22] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. 

[00:06:22] Gerald Saunders: And the most interesting thing about that is so the magazine had like a eight, 10 page layout of her in it. And they had told me it was gonna be the December, 1995 issue of gallery. So I'm thinking. We should shoot a second set. That's kind of Christmasy looking, but not too Christmasy like green and red, green and red, green, and red. 

They put one of those pictures on the cover of the magazine. That's so unheard of to put some unknown chick outta nowhere on the cover of the magazine. And certainly by some photographer you'd never heard of, but poof, she's on the cover and she's in the magazine and there you go. And here and here we are today. 

[00:07:06] Matthew Holliday: I mean, that's of a way to get in. How did you go from doing, uh, that's style photography and moving into adult work? 

[00:07:14] Gerald Saunders: Well, that's actually an interesting story too. Kind of. So a friend of mine that was a producer here, um, in Vegas, he was gonna go to LA to shoot a couple of girls, but he wanted me to go along to take pictures and be camera guy for his videos. Go out there, shot one girl, wherever we shot her, went to this other location. It was actually a hotel room because that's pretty common. And his style was very amateur style too. So I shoot this well, it wasn't a POV scene, but I shoot this blowjob scene with him and her and whatever we get that done. And she says to him, Hey, I could use a little extra money. 

Do you think we could do another BJ? And he's like, 

[00:07:57] Matthew Holliday: well, I can't, I can't do it. Right. 

he's  

[00:08:01] Gerald Saunders: like, I can't do that like right away. And he comes over to me. He goes, Hey, if I just pay this chick to do this, do you wanna do that? And I'll film it. Yeah, sure. Poof. And that was the first scene I ever shot that I was in. 

Like, I was so unprepared for it. It wasn't even like I ran and cleaned up real quick, but mentally I was so unprepared for it. And then, so the next thing you know, I'm like, duh, I can do this. And, and here we are. 

[00:08:27] Matthew Holliday: so you run a couple sites nowadays. Uh, what are the sites that you run? 

[00:08:31] Gerald Saunders: Well, actually, there's a huge sort of network of them. 

I run a bunch of individual models as websites that are part of my network. Um, I have a handful of sites that are actually sites of mine that I run within the network. But the two main ones that I do are Las Vegas, amateurs.com. And then my bondage one is called exposed bondage.com, but there are definitely more than two. 

They all kind of network together. So running off a list of domain names would just be time consuming if one thing, but the two main ones are Las Vegas, amateur.com, which is more the porn site content and the exposed bondage.com, which is obviously bondage stuff, which I really like shooting both types. 

So it's good that I can be diverse like that. And most of the girls that I shoot are finally shooting both types of content too, which is also a good thing. 

[00:09:32] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I feel like a lot of the models that I've spoken to seem to really like bondage out of all of the fetish work, they seem to regard bondage is almost like a light and playful form of fetish work versus other stuff. 

[00:09:47] Gerald Saunders: I tend to agree there. I mean, it depends because like anything, there are different levels of anything. 

[00:09:53] Matthew Holliday: You're right. You can tie somebody up, you can throw them down and have your way with them in a violent way. versus. 

[00:09:59] Gerald Saunders: but I mean, damsen distress type bondage, which is pretty much what I would classify. What I shoot is, oh, I've abducted you from wherever I've abducted you. 

And I've got you restrained on the bed and I'm gonna use a sex toy and you to make you come. And if you don't come, I'm not gonna let you go. And if you do come, then I'm gonna let you go wink, wink. But I don't 

[00:10:20] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Hmm. I know, for example, when I was looking at how to monetize the podcast, for example, Patreon says that you cannot discuss incest. If you want to be monetized on Patreon at all, 

[00:10:34] Gerald Saunders: doesn't surprise me, 

[00:10:35] Matthew Holliday: which makes sense. Cuz they on like PornHub thing, they call it it's all step stuff. 

Right. So I assume it's the same thing there. It 

[00:10:42] Gerald Saunders: pretty much is. Yeah. And that all changed basically about a year and a half ago. I mean, because it was always taboo to have scenes where the girls calling you dad or daddy, but it was still okay. 

But about a year and a half ago, for various reasons, the credit card companies specifically MasterCard and visa, not necessarily discover or JCB or those, but specifically MasterCard visa. They came down really, really hard with that. So like you've gotta say step or step or stepmom or stepbrother or stepdad or step you can't say you can't say the other and. 

there were a lot of scenes that I have shot where they said daddy. And so now when I title those, when I'm putting 'em up in say a new place, that's a new clip type store. Of course I'm gonna change it to I'm, I'm gonna label it step or whatever. 

[00:11:43] Matthew Holliday: and if I recall correctly, not every model's okay with the step-dad thing 

[00:11:46] Gerald Saunders: That is correct. Yeah. I mean, well, actually let's backtrack even further. Not all models are okay with the dad thing. Like even when I would shoot dad, well, I can do it, but can we say you're my stepdad? Sure. I don't care. You know, um, I've got one model who I shoot with all the time that re we did that one time. And I think it was her first time doing it where I was actually her, her stepdad, even not her dad. And she loves shooting with me. We still shoot today or to this day. But after that one time, she was like, you. 

can we come up with some kind of different kiss? So now I'm her landlord. 

[00:12:27] Matthew Holliday: yeah. Now as, as someone who has a daughter, I find it way too weird personally. I, I, it, yeah, if it's, if it's somebody else's kink, I'm not gonna shit on your kink, but it's too weird for me. 

[00:12:38] Gerald Saunders: I get it, you know, but I mean, for me marketing, it's better to say that I'm your stepdad or whatever, but in this specific scenario, I really like shooting this model and saying the whole thing, because she's the only one that I ever say, I'm your landlord that actually brings a whole unique perspective to, and some diversity that I don't share with other models in just with her. 

[00:13:04] Matthew Holliday: So I saw you, uh, have things on loyal fans and only fans as well. Is that the same stuff that's on Las Vegas, amateurs and exposed bondage? Or is it separate? 

[00:13:11] Gerald Saunders: Yeah, pretty much like all my clips when I run, I have loyal fans, only fans clips for sale mini bids. And so I put everything everywhere. I can do it. Um, there's, there's a place. 

Called F house FP house. 

[00:13:27] Matthew Holliday: now I've seen it advertised before, but I'd  

[00:13:29] Gerald Saunders: well it used to be called ex hamster, but they changed it to F house about a year 

[00:13:33] Matthew Holliday: year  

[00:13:34] Gerald Saunders: Don't know why, um, and fun. The funny thing about that is ex hamster 

[00:13:38] Matthew Holliday: never really made much sense, honestly. right. 

[00:13:41] Gerald Saunders: Well, the funny thing is they sent me all kinds of gear and t-shirts and even masks and stuff as ex hamster from whatever country they're in, they sent. 

So I can shoot the models in them, cuz I always do that. You know, here's the girl in a, I want clips t-shirt or here's a girl in a whatever, just to promote them and them. So they sent me this big, huge box of ex hamster stuff. And five weeks later they changed their name. So, and they haven't made, they haven't made F house stuff yet, but as soon as they do, I'll get them to send me some more and redo it all. but anyway, anyway. Yeah. To answer your actual question. I put, I don't really keep any of my content exclusive to any of those clip stores, because the more place it is, the better it is for me, because you might buy your clips at, I want clips and Larry might buy his clips at clips for sale and never get an account anywhere else. 

So if I don't have them everywhere, the person that only buys from clips for sale or only buys from many vids or only buys from wherever or only views it at F house may never see it. If I don't put it in all of those places and I don't find that it, uh, and I find it helps me financially to do that as opposed to hurts me because it's, I don't feel like it's everywhere. 

I feel like it's everywhere 

possible.  

[00:15:03] Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. Yeah. And that makes sense too, cuz you've got your own subscription sites. If they like your style and want everything you do. And then the individual sites, if they like everything you shoot with an individual model, they'll just pick up the stuff from that model. 

Right. Or, yeah. 

[00:15:19] Gerald Saunders: Well, and the same thing too, if they, like, let's say they like six different things with six different models that are the same type of scenario. 

[00:15:29] Matthew Holliday: Landlord stuff. 

[00:15:31] Gerald Saunders: Pardon? 

[00:15:32] Matthew Holliday: They like all the landlord stuff 

[00:15:33] Gerald Saunders: Well, right. Well, yeah. Okay. But I mean, yeah, but if they like POV blow jobs and they say, oh, that's one with a black girl and oh, that's girl with a heavier girl. 

That's a girl with barely no tits and da, you know, different scenarios or different body types. They might go, oh, that's watermark, Las Vegas, amateurs.com. I should just go there. And then they join my website. So cuz everything's watermarked so that they can find out where it came from. So if they're like, well, I like this. 

I'll just go join that website to see all of it or whatever's coming new. And I do try, although I don't always succeed in doing this. I do try to put my content up first on my websites. But actually it's kind of over the past year, really. I've actually kind of reversed that to put on clip stores first because I pre-program everything to be, to have updates like every, every Wednesday, Saturday, or every Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday. 

So a lot of my stuff is pre-programmed out for like a year. So I can't sh I mean, if I shot something, say this past Wednesday, I can put it up right away just to do it, but I usually try to wait, even though I just shot it. 

[00:16:49] Matthew Holliday: Oh, how often do you release content? 

[00:16:51] Gerald Saunders: Oh, well, 

[00:16:52] Matthew Holliday: because you mentioned Wednesdays and Saturdays. 

[00:16:54] Gerald Saunders: Well, 

[00:16:55] Matthew Holliday: was that an example or do you typically release twice a week? 

[00:16:58] Gerald Saunders: No, that's kind of an example, but it depends on which clip store too. Like they're all different. 

So like 

my, and this is generally speaking. I actually can't swear. This is the actual dates. But Las Vegas amateurs, I try to do Wednesday, Saturday. Um, I try to do two different days for exposed bondage. And I think that's Monday, Sunday, I mean, Monday, Friday, 

[00:17:24] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Well, you said you've got it all automated, so , it's all automated, right? Or, 

[00:17:28] Gerald Saunders: but, right. So like I program even the same thing with clip store. Well, actually there are some clip stores that don't let you program stuff. Well, one of those, for example, when I post stuff, it just goes live immediately. Like post boom, boom, 10 minutes later, it's up. So I have to keep track of that if I don't want to go, boom, boom, boom. 

If I'm adding 15 things, I don't necessarily want to go in one day. 

[00:17:53] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:17:53] Gerald Saunders: But at the same time, that can be helpful because if you're starting a new clip store or a new clip place, then you can put 15 clips up right away. Yeah. 

[00:18:04] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. You probably don't wanna start a clip store with just one  

[00:18:06] Gerald Saunders: Correct. 

Well, most of them make you have at least five, but. 

even if you have a hundred clips and you're starting in a new place, you can still program them out. Right? If, if you're, if they have a like clips for sale and mini vids and me, most of the other ones, they have a calendar where you can program them out. And so if I have, let's say I've got a brand new, let's say one of these brand new things with Cindy Crawford. If I, when I get those edited, probably later this week, I'm gonna go and post that one clip anyway on all my places. And I might go and do it on all of them on Sunday, just to get 'em up right away, even though it's outta sync with all the other ones. Because to me that doesn't really matter. I just wanna get something up quick. 

I'm not gonna take something down that was supposed to go up Saturday just to put that I'm not gonna substitute it. I'm just gonna, oh, cool. Extra scene for you guys. Yay. this hot blonde, you know, um, so what 

[00:19:06] Matthew Holliday: I didn't want a hot blonde dammit 

[00:19:09] Gerald Saunders: so it just, it, it, 

it, 

really depends. Like, and I actually keep a spreadsheet for each model, like have a, like, I'll have a model for Zeva I'll have a spreadsheet for Zeva Fey. And here's the scene title. And is it on porn hub? Is it on the website? Is it on clips for sale? Is it on many vis? Is it on I clips? Is it on so on? And so and so and so on and so forth, is it on a DVD? Because I make DVDs too. 

[00:19:37] Matthew Holliday: So I noticed you shoot a lot of POV. Is that mostly a financial decision in terms of bringing in talent or bringing in crew or does POV just sell better? 

[00:19:45] Gerald Saunders: Well, for me, POV's gonna sell better. I really find it 

unnecessary 

to hire male talent, to be honest, just to be honest. Um, if I have a girl coming over here to shoot a POV blowjob scene or whatever, and she knows it's gonna be with me, then I don't have to worry about showing her who the guy is or picking out some guy, or maybe she cares. 

Maybe she doesn't care. That's it's just an extra step that I don't need to 

[00:20:17] Matthew Holliday: simplifies things. 

[00:20:18] Gerald Saunders: Yeah. And you know, I'm not saying I do it because it's self gratifying, although that's great too. But I also am not saying it because I don't wanna hire a male talent. There is one instance where I've had been shooting content for this other company and their website. And it was basically unknown black girls having sex to get into porn. That's the scenario of the scene. And so the guy that was the male talent of it lives here in Vegas and we become friends and business partners. So as far as hiring male talent, I'll hire this guy to do hand job. Because I want to have hand job scenes in my Reptar of stuff to sell and whatnot. 

So, and, but that's pretty much it. And then as far as you asked about POV itself, they're, they're easy to shoot because I'm just, it's just me one camera. I'm not using my regular two camera scenario where I have to even edit the videos together. It's just me and a camera. So I can actually, I shot a POV scene the other day with the Anastasia rose and I already have it up online cuz they didn't have to edit it. 

All I had to do is water market. And it's up 

[00:21:32] Matthew Holliday: on that subject. Uh, the POV, uh, what types of videos sell best like Gonzo where you just jump straight into the sex or do you, does it sell better if there's some type of story attached to it? 

[00:21:44] Gerald Saunders: Almost all of mine have some kind of storyline. I mean, 

[00:21:47] Matthew Holliday: is that a personal choice or is that cuz it sells better that way? 

[00:21:49] Gerald Saunders: Well, so, well at first I started having different storylines because I wanted initially I wanted to make a different website for each. . And so ultimately that didn't necessarily backfire because I have the same domain names for them, but ultimately all that content ends up in Las Vegas amateurs. Now I have a scenario where the girl wants to be a pantyhose model and she kind of manipulates me into being a blowjob. 

That's called the pantyhose factory. Um, my,  

[00:22:19] Matthew Holliday: that'd actually be a really good series. I mean, there's enough pantyhose 

[00:22:22] Gerald Saunders: Oh, it is. Yeah. I've got like 18 DVDs of it or something. 

[00:22:26] Matthew Holliday: right. DVDs. Wow. 

[00:22:28] Gerald Saunders: Well, that's what I mean. I started making DVDs instead of websites, but yeah, there is a website for it though. 

The PIOs factory.com. When I said I run a lot of websites, I'm not trying to plug 8 million 

[00:22:38] Matthew Holliday: websites. Yeah, no, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, that reminds me of that. What, what was that? What was that? 

Was that company, American apparel or something. Yeah. That released those like hot catalogs. And then it turns out that like the, the people doing the catalogs were like assaulting the models. 

[00:22:53] Gerald Saunders: Oh, 

[00:22:54] Matthew Holliday: But anyways, like a sexier more consent driven version of that 

oh, 

right. 

[00:23:01] Gerald Saunders: Well, and probably my most favorite storyline of all. And this is actually one. If I was gonna plug any of 'em I'd wanna plug it's called bounced check bitches, bounce, check bitches.com. 

[00:23:14] Matthew Holliday: check BCBS, 

[00:23:15] Gerald Saunders: BCBS BCB. 

I actually said that in some you're in, in my fictitious paperwork, it says you're a BCB. What does that stand for? Bounce check bitch. And they get pissed off. Literally. You've got that right on the money. So the storyline is the girl wrote a check for her couch or her TV or whatever the hell it is that she wrote to check for it bounced. 

And I'm 

[00:23:37] Matthew Holliday: com knock on the door. 

[00:23:40] Gerald Saunders: Hey, are you Bambi? Or are you Henrietta or whatever? The girl's fake name is. Well, yeah. Well, you know, your new couch had deliver the check balance. So I gotta take it back. Wait, what would you have any money to pay? No. Well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, maybe we can work something out, wink, wink, and then, 

[00:23:56] Matthew Holliday: I find it interesting though, that those two scenarios though. So one of them is very, how do I describe it? So one of them though, like you're the aggressor. Yeah. And you're like, oh, I'm gonna take your couch away. 

But then the other one, the Panio factory, it sounded almost like she was the 

[00:24:13] Gerald Saunders: Exactly. No, you're right. That's exactly right. Huh? you know, they, they come like I'm holding the camera in the pans factory. 

I'm holding the camera and they'll come up to me and kind of get all snugly. And it's like really hard to shoot real quick, cuz I'm right up 

[00:24:26] Matthew Holliday: you're like, I, I can't take a picture. You're too close. 

[00:24:29] Gerald Saunders: Well, yeah, but it's sort of, but that's kind of the point because if POV, it wants to be like Joe, Schmos watching it. 

So. 

Then they're grabbing my cock and whatever, and they're rubbing, what do you do? Well, you know, then they'll, they'll literally bring my hand up. So I'm rubbing their tits and it goes from there. So it's obvious that the girl's coming onto me about it because she really wants to be a pantyhose model in my company that damn bad that we end up doing whatever we do. 

[00:24:56] Matthew Holliday: What about when you're making content, do you find that doing solo versus girl, girl versus boy girl content? Is it more about the models, boundaries, or is it more about trying to make sure you have content for everyone? Or is it more about trying to make content which sells the most?  

[00:25:12] Gerald Saunders: Well, 

first all it's always about the models. 

Boundaries always like never does the word manipulation introduce studio. like, I never try to get girls to do something they don't want to do regardless. Um, now for example, if. I'm gonna shoot them solo or whether it's solo or not using toys. If a girl's, for example, never used a glass toy, a glass dolo. 

I might suggest, Hey, you wanna check this out and maybe even check it out first for a minute before we're actually shooting to see if you actually like it. I don't go, you're using this toy. Whether you freaking like it or not, 

[00:25:55] Matthew Holliday: surprise. 

[00:25:56] Gerald Saunders: surprise. Right. You know what I mean? Because some girls love those and some girls don't right. 

So there's, there's always boundaries that need to be kept. So I just wanna, 

[00:26:07] Matthew Holliday: yep, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. For the purposes, for the purpose of the conversation, we'll assume, I guess, choosing to hire, like, cuz you can choose to hire somebody that only does solo stuff versus somebody that does. 

Yeah. Yeah. really  

[00:26:19] Gerald Saunders: shoot girl, girl scenes. Not because I don't like it, but because if you tell one girl her to be at one and one girl to be here at one, one of 'em is gonna here at three. When you're done with the one that 

[00:26:31] Matthew Holliday: and 

[00:26:31] Gerald Saunders: wanted here, you wanted them both at one o'clock. One of them's not gonna be here at one o'clock and I'm not paying the other girl to sit around while I'm waiting on you. 

But trying to coordinate two people to be here at the same time is nerve wracking. And I just try not to deal with it. You know, now if I said. Let's say I'm hiring model a and she goes, Hey, my roommate model B might want to come over. Is that okay? Because you might wanna shoot her two, even if you don't shoot her today, you might wanna shoot her eventually. 

Yeah. Bring her on because then they're both here. And then if they both wanna shoot together, then they're both here, 

[00:27:11] Matthew Holliday: but that's like a backup plan. 

[00:27:12] Gerald Saunders: That's like 1% of the time, maybe one 10th of  

[00:27:16] Matthew Holliday: of the time. 

[00:27:17] Gerald Saunders: But, but then I get to meet some other model. So I wouldn't say no to that. You know, even if I'm only gonna shoot model a and not model B ever, or that day, at least they're over here, you know, kind of all the same. 

You asked about that with boy, girl scenes. Additionally, that's kind of why I don't really like to hire male talent too. Not blaming guys or anything, but trying to coordinate more than one person at a time is a nightmare. And so 

the, 

but as far as shooting, I kind of forgot your question.  

[00:27:51] Matthew Holliday: Oh, why? Why, 

why, why choose whether to do solo versus girl, girl versus boy, girl? 

Well, but it sounds like it's mostly because of the ease 

[00:28:00] Gerald Saunders: well, it is. And it also obviously depends upon the model too. So for example, if a model's fine with doing boy, girl, you still let's say a girl comes over here or anywhere, and she has almost no restrictions doing hardcore. Like you completely see her doing hardcore. You can't assume that she's gonna be fine with doing solo and toys. 

[00:28:25] Matthew Holliday: Hmm let's uh, let's actually, so I've got some other questions around content, but let's jump over to. Yeah, the consent and the boundaries 

Um, because we we've already started talking about it. Yeah. yeah. So do you find that most models come in with firm boundaries when they come into the adult work, 

[00:28:43] Gerald Saunders: when they enter adult work in 

[00:28:45] Matthew Holliday: they enter adult work or do they, their boundaries stretch over time? 

[00:28:48] Gerald Saunders: Oh, I'm sure a lot of 'em stretch over time, but maybe they didn't even expect that they would stretch over time, 

[00:28:53] Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm 

[00:28:54] Gerald Saunders: you know? Um, I told you this off camera, so I'll be really short when I tell you this, there was a model that came over here to shoot, like with another producer here at my studio. And he basically only had her shoot like nude selfies and whatnot. 

Cuz selfie shoots were huge back probably in 2013. Well, this was 2013, like, so he was shooting a lot of like, not even video, but like selfie photos with a cell phone or a little small camera and. So when they got done shooting, she sat down and we talked about potential things that she and I could shoot. 

And I said, well, what are you okay with shooting? She goes, I don't really know. I'm like, well, I understand cuz you're brand new with this. So I shoot stuff with toys and I shoot blowjob, I shoot sex and this, that, and the other and soft bondage and whatnot. And she immediately goes, well, I could do a blow job. 

Didn't even say that to him or he would've done it. And I know he would've. Right. So 

[00:29:55] Matthew Holliday: guys. Yeah. 

[00:29:56] Gerald Saunders: no, I mean, he shot that all the time, so I know he would've done it. Like, I 

[00:30:00] Matthew Holliday: I was just, I was just thinking guys were shallow, but 

[00:30:02] Gerald Saunders: no, no, like he's a producer that would've shot 

[00:30:04] Matthew Holliday: that. Oh, I see. I, yeah. I was thinking poorly of him and I, 

[00:30:08] Gerald Saunders: I, no, I just think, I just think that he thought she, this girl's so hot. She would never do that. Like in not one of those scenarios, like she had just turned 18 in December and this was in may or something like she was like, she literally had just graduated high school. And I think he thought from whatever conversations they had, that all she was gonna do was take naked itself through pictures. 

So the next thing I know we're shooting a blowjob like that, like poop. We just did it that day. 

[00:30:37] Matthew Holliday: Well, the interesting thing about boundaries that I know I didn't really get until probably my mid thirties or so is that boundaries tend to be so situational too. 

Oh yeah. Like your level of trust with people in the situation and where you are. 

[00:30:51] Gerald Saunders: And I think that was the case with this girl, Lacey, you know, the only reason we ever stopped shooting is cuz she went off to college. Good for her. Yay. You know, I helped her pay for part of it. But you know, girls may come over here and be totally fine with shooting bondage because they've developed trust with me for shooting that, but they may not go shoot with somebody else doing bondage because they don't know him. 

Or maybe he doesn't have a real well established website or something. He looks too brand new. Maybe they just don't get a good vibe from him or whatever. 

[00:31:26] Matthew Holliday: Uh, alright. So how do you establish boundaries and consent before you start shooting? 

[00:31:32] Gerald Saunders: Well, I didn't used to have this until, maybe about not quite a year ago, but I saw something online that people were. 

Presenting, literally a checklist of like a consent form checklist, like list a bunch of stuff and have 'em go yes or no. Yes or no. Yes or no. And so I thought, well, especially because I'm shooting bondage and now that it's come up, that other people are doing it, I should probably do that too. So I've basically made a checklist, you know, and even on my checklist, I intentionally include stuff that I don't shoot. And the reason is because. Let's say Henrietta Smith. The model is okay with interracial anal gang bangs. And she 

[00:32:19] Matthew Holliday: writes that 

[00:32:21] Gerald Saunders: well, I mean, she might be sorry, 

[00:32:24] Matthew Holliday: I'm sorry, 

[00:32:24] Gerald Saunders: but I know other producers that shoot that. So she works out good for me. I can say, Hey producer, that shoots that I just shot a model. That's great with that. 

She's totally fine with interracial gang bangs. So if you like the way she looks, you might want reach out to her. So I ask them what they'll do, regardless if I shoot it or not, because ultimately if they do it, I can help them get outta work. 

[00:32:47] Matthew Holliday: well, and it's not just that either, because, all right. So this was, this led me to think about what you're talking about, that other model earlier about how she was shooting with another producer. 

And then it turns out she was willing to do things. The other producer didn't even ask about. Right. That's always a piece. That's always a frustration as you go on like a site, like model mayhem, or you go on Instagram. And you have no idea where the model's boundaries are. Right. And your only way to find out where the model's boundary is, is to ask until she says no, which is kind of a harrowing thing to do, right? 

Yes. . You're like, do you do this? Yes. All right. Do I push a little further? Do you do this plus this like, and 

[00:33:27] Gerald Saunders: well, and in most cases, well, I used to be on model mayhem, but they suck now to me. So besides 

[00:33:35] Matthew Holliday: few models on there now. Yeah. So few models. 

[00:33:37] Gerald Saunders: So, but anyway, so I'm not necessarily calling out model mayhem. 

However, back it's been like 2000, probably nine, I think, since I've been on model mayhem. But back then, when you were looking to find a model. and you know, one of the things they do, you do nudes. Yes. And then her list of things that says erotic, they 

[00:33:59] Matthew Holliday: all say erotic. 

[00:34:00] Gerald Saunders: They all say erotic. Exactly. Well, what the hell does that mean? 

Does it mean I can see your nipples or does it mean I can fuck you? What does that mean? No, right. Yeah. And so 

[00:34:10] Matthew Holliday: say erotic, but then they say shoots nudes. No, What  

[00:34:15] Gerald Saunders: right? 

Or they'll put fetish shoot S nudes. No, well that I get, cuz maybe it can be foot fetish or pantyhose fetish or whatever, 

[00:34:21] Matthew Holliday: or they'll they'll, they'll say you can, you know, wrap rope around my arm. 

right. Yeah. 

[00:34:26] Gerald Saunders: Well you can do not nude bondage cuz that's a thing too, but I've actually shot some of that. But so 

the, 

but the vagueness of how some of it is posted when a girl says not just a girl, but a model 

says 

whatever their limits are. You're right. Sometimes when you have to. I don't even wanna say this word, but sometimes you have to pride them to like a can opener to find out what they actually are, because they don't necessarily even know. 

And I don't, I mean, just because they'll do blow jobs, doesn't mean you can come on their face. Just, I mean, that's a good, that's actually a really good example, you know, come in my boobs or my ass, but don't come in my mouth or don't come in my face. Like, there's just so many there's models and I'm, I'm not complaining about models cuz you should have your restrictions, but there are restrictions and then there's subres restrictions. 

Just like I was mentioning before, kiss my 

[00:35:29] Matthew Holliday: kissing and sucking. 

[00:35:30] Gerald Saunders: Kiss my boobs, but don't suck on my nipples. What? Okay. I'm glad you told me you know, well, 

[00:35:35] Matthew Holliday: Well, and, and even the consent checklist, like, do you have like a main check and then like, like this could go like 300 lines, so you obviously can't go quite that far, but still it's better than it's better than a verbal, better than verbal check-ins ahead of time. 

[00:35:48] Gerald Saunders: and. To be a little bit funny about it. They can do interracial and they can do gang bangs, but they may not do interracial gang bangs. That's right. so 

[00:35:57] Matthew Holliday: no, no, but, but what I was saying is I do like the idea of putting it all on there, because like, let's say that I'm shooting with somebody. 

Um, and I just want to do a nude art, like an art shoot. Yes. Like a fine art shoot, but then she checks on there that she's willing to do, you know, erotic masturbation stuff. Right. And I know, all right, if I want to make some solo girl content, I can call her back and I don't have to ask her, I don't have to like message her on Instagram and say, Hey, by the way, right. 

Do you do this? 

[00:36:23] Gerald Saunders: And, and to bring back this scenario of the photographer, this shot here, where I end up meeting and shooting, Lacey had he had a checklist. He might have known . Yeah. That she would do other things. Maybe she didn't even know herself. Who knows, but yeah. So yeah. I mean, it's the, the. The checklist thing is a great idea. 

And surprisingly I'm really, I'm really surprised actually that it didn't come around as a thing to do. I mean, it probably was a thing to do for some people, but became publicized on X biz and AVN or whatever about a year ago that people are doing this. And I was like, well, hell yeah, I should have been doing this shit 20 years ago. 

[00:37:03] Matthew Holliday: So do you generally keep it, like what, like maybe 20 items, fairly high level, like blow job. Like, I guess, I guess what is it like pose nude bondage, like, like high level stuff and then maybe keep some like note space at the bottom for more 

specific stuff  

[00:37:16] Gerald Saunders: of, if I'm visualizing mine correctly, that's about right. 

I mean, I basically put, I kind of have it organized by things that I really generally shoot, depending upon obviously if it's okay with a girl, but then a bunch of things I don't shoot underneath. 

[00:37:32] Matthew Holliday: All right. Uh, so speaking on now that we're back to working with models, uh, where do you find models? 

[00:37:38] Gerald Saunders: Well, that's different. used to be, and Lacey is, I hate to bring her up again. I don't really hate to bring her up again, 

[00:37:49] Matthew Holliday: So, I mean, it's helpful to have a thread that runs through the conversation. 

So  

[00:37:53] Gerald Saunders: Lacey was found by my friend, actually, not by me. She had responded to him on Craigslist. When you used to be able to look for models on Craigslist. 

Well, that all came to a close in 2015, basically. Um, now at the time that wasn't the only place I looked for models, but that was the place I'd looked 

for 

super brand new models that wouldn't have even known anything about an agency, right. Or models that figured, yeah, I can be nude, but that was kind of the case with Lacey. 

Actually I can do nude pictures, whatever. Sure. Whatever. And then it developed into what it developed. I mean like weekly, I was posting stuff on Craigslist, looking for models, and then that just stopped. And I found some great girls, a lot of local girls that live in this area in Vegas, or maybe north Arizona or whatever, or came to, came to Vegas, you know, and happened to see I'd have some, I would have models from like completely outta town that would see it. 

Hey, I'm only here for the week. Can you shoot me now? or like they were just visiting Vegas. They weren't, they weren't even, I mean, in some CA in a couple of cases, they weren't actually models. They were just pretty girls that kind of needed some money while they 

[00:39:09] Matthew Holliday: case. 

Uh, in that case, what happened in Vegas did not stay in Vegas, correct. 

[00:39:17] Gerald Saunders: but then, but then, you know, that door closed, uh, with Craigslist, but at the same time around, well, not really around that time, but previous to that, I had started. Become pretty well known with models that would recommend other models or certainly Twitter. Cause I have a bajillion Twitter followers and I follow girls and there's a lot of girls that, you know, they'll have an agent, but they can also self book, not with their agent. So in other words, some, some of the, some of the adult agencies are not exclusive. So if Henrietta Smith is booked through Larry's porn agency, all her work doesn't have to go through Larry's porn agency. So if Henrietta Smith and I end up with a conversation on Twitter, Hey, I live in Bumble. Fuck Idaho, but I'm gonna be in Vegas in a couple, three weeks. 

Do you think we could shoot? Yeah. Sure. And then I don't have to go through our agency either, cuz we're talking directly. So now to answer your question pretty much now it's just Twitter. Maybe Facebook once in a while. Um, But there, like, I don't even mess with places like model mayhem and stuff anymore. 

Like, because you can't even talk to girls about porn and model mayhem. 

[00:40:37] Matthew Holliday: Hmm. 

[00:40:38] Gerald Saunders: I that's actually, why I'm not on model mayhem. There was a girl that did porn and she basically said it on her model mayhem. And I messaged her about shooting and did not mention anything about shooting porn. I told her what my Twitter was and for her to go look and then reach back out to me if she was interested. 

And you know what she did 

[00:41:00] Matthew Holliday: reported. You 

[00:41:00] Gerald Saunders: poured me to model mayhem for trying to get her to do porn when she was a porn star with a porn agency. Yeah. So F model mayhem.  

[00:41:11] Matthew Holliday: that's fair. uh, do you ever fly models in or do you look locally or do they fly to you? Do they fly in and shoot with a bunch of producers in Vegas? 

[00:41:20] Gerald Saunders: Well, that's now it's a complicated question. So often. Well, Zeva Fay. She comes to Vegas. She may drive or fly or whatever, and stay and stay here. Stay stays here in Vegas for a few days. And Hey, I'm coming to Vegas from July 9th to July 14th, whatever. What day can we shoot man, love shooting you. Cool. You tell me when, cuz like with somebody like that, that I've shot with regularly, like was Eva. 

I know her schedule books up really, really quick. So I basically tell her to tell me when she can shoot, 

[00:41:59] Matthew Holliday: mm-hmm 

[00:42:00] Gerald Saunders: instead of me going, let's do July the 12th at 5:00 PM because she may already have somebody booked then. So I'll just be super flexible with somebody like that. You know? Um, if it's, if it's a model that's coming into town that I don't really know, then I'll go, well, can you do it on that Tuesday at one? 

O'clock well, can you make it to yeah, cuz I can be real flexible cuz I work from here. Yeah. And unless I have some other shoot or some other thing to do. That would be pre like a doctor appointment or something. Then I can, if she wants to shoot at midnight, I can do that too. , you know, there's a specific girl 

that 

I shoot that lives in Virginia, that we're developing. 

We have already developed and started her website. And because there's different, I'm gonna say scenarios, but that translates to pay structures with different models. In this specific case, we're shooting the content basically where I'm not paying her to shoot it because I'm shooting it and she's providing some of the content and she gets a different percentage for her website than maybe other people do, because I'm not hiring her. 

Like if I'm hiring her, I'm putting it on my website. It's not her. Yeah. 

[00:43:15] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:43:15] Gerald Saunders: So, 

but 

she's gonna come back out and I paid for the plane ticket and she can stay here with me cuz she's been here before. So she's not having to. Stick around with a hotel and then Uber's back and forth, saves time and money and whatnot. 

So, you know, because she provides a lot of the con almost most of the content for her website. I'm like, well, hell, I'll just get you a $400 plane ticket and come out, you know, and then feed you and we're gonna shoot for three or four days. And there you go. That's, that's not something I do all the time. It would be something I would do all the time. If somebody wanted to do a situation like that. But primarily it's girls that are coming to Vegas, letting me know that they're gonna be in Vegas. And if I'm available to shoot or whatever, then we'll shoot. I like to shoot the same models again. And again, I'm assu and that falls under the assumption that they liked working with me, but 

[00:44:13] Matthew Holliday: that 

[00:44:13] Gerald Saunders: almost never is not the case. 

So, you know, if a girl has, I mean, there's some girls that I shoot like super regularly, um, I like shooting rave and vice, for example, I like shooting. Um, Zeva of course, uh, Tricia Oaks. I shoot a lot. Anastasia rose. I shoot whenever she can get out here cuz she was living in Florida. So she wasn't here all the time. 

I mean, so there's, you know, if I connect really well with a girl and they like the storylines and whatnot that I shoot, I like shooting, repeat customer, repeat customers, so to speak. But some of that also is based upon if their content does well, you know, like if I shoot Henrietta Smith, I could shoot her five times and spend a bunch of money shooting her. 

But if her stuff never sells, I don't wanna shoot her at six time. Yeah. And it's nothing personal, but for whatever reason, her content doesn't sell, then it's defeating the purpose. Because to be really honest, regardless of who the model is, I'm not shooting the content so I can get off I'm shooting the content. 

So people watching it can. And if they're not a fan of Henrietta Smith, and I learned that after shooting her a couple times, then it doesn't make sense for me to shoot her more. 

[00:45:32] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the, I imagine that's one of the hardest parts about this, right? Is you usually can't figure that out until after you spent the money until after you spent the money and put up the clip and then you sit there and know sales roll in and you're just like, oh, well that's unfortunate. 

well, 

[00:45:49] Gerald Saunders: I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but it happens, you know, I mean it, but then a year later she becomes popular from having had shot with all kinds of other people and all of a sudden she's. A known porn star as a person who's dabbling their toes in it. And what, and all of a sudden I find that Henrietta Smith is really selling, oh, she's shot with browsers and team skied and all these other big companies now. So people are finding out who she is, so they're searching for her. And now they're finding her stuff from me that I shot a year and a half ago. 

[00:46:22] Matthew Holliday: Do you make an effort to try and find people before they like get in? Like, 

[00:46:26] Gerald Saunders: I prefer that if I can. 

[00:46:29] Matthew Holliday: Uh, do you think it's socially more acceptable for girls to model for adult work now, do you feel like more girls are doing it now compared to 20 years ago or less, or? 

Well, 

[00:46:40] Gerald Saunders: I wouldn't I wouldn't like to surmise or assume that it's is, or isn't more socially acceptable just because it's always, I don't think it's always, I don't think that it's ever gonna actually really be acceptable just to. 

Be Frank about it, but I think more, I think that over the course of, well, I've been since 1995. So what's that 35, 36 years. I think, I think that, or 25, 26 years, I think that the girls that have the potential to, or want to be, or have always thought about being modeling nude or not have an easier way to do it because of the internet. 

And certainly in the past 20 years, as the Internet's really sped up and progressed, meaning the speed of the internet has sped up and progressed that it's become easier to become a model Instagram, this, that, and the other. Um, but to step into the adult industry has actually even become easier, not, not just for models, but also people that want to shoot. 

Photography or video because any Joe Schmo can go to best buy and get a good camera now. 

[00:48:05] Matthew Holliday: no, that makes sense. Cuz if you assume like let's, let's assume that the percentage of people that wanted to do new work nude work, the, the percentage of people that are either exhibitionist. 

Or that just don't care. they're just like, whatever, you know, I I'll I'll I'll have sex for money. It does, you know, I have no moral qualms about it. Right. Let's assume that's always been 1%, 60 years ago. They didn't have the avenue. 

[00:48:27] Gerald Saunders: Well, that that's yeah, exactly.  

[00:48:29] Matthew Holliday: well that's. Yeah, exactly. And now they're like, I just have, you know, I can just do it. 

Yeah. I 

[00:48:32] Gerald Saunders: picked up my 

[00:48:33] Matthew Holliday: cell phone for 

[00:48:34] Gerald Saunders: of you. They can't see it. Every damn girl and guy yeah. 

[00:48:38] Matthew Holliday: yeah. 

[00:48:39] Gerald Saunders: Has a cell phone. 

[00:48:40] Matthew Holliday: Yep. 

[00:48:41] Gerald Saunders: And the cell phone takes VI current cell phones take 4k video, practically as good as my actual video cameras, which is why, when you said something about getting into gear, I said, it's not necessary. Cause. You know, you can, 

[00:48:57] Matthew Holliday: doesn't matter now.  

[00:48:58] Gerald Saunders: No, I 

mean, you can take great pictures. 

Some of my box covers for some of my DVDs, I've actually shot with my cell phone. 

[00:49:04] Matthew Holliday: So do you like interchangeably use your camera and your cell phone? 

[00:49:08] Gerald Saunders: Well, no. And some of my bonded scenes, I'm actually using my cell phone as part of the scenes. If I'm in a hurry or if we're not really gonna want to take the, a long time for me to actually take regular photos because the photos in my cell phone are easily good enough for me to make me to make DVD box covers out of if I need to make them. 

So even I end up using my cell phone sometimes, but not, I mean, that's like 1% of the time, but still the quality's there. 

[00:49:36] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I saw just earlier this week I saw an announcement from Sony saying that they think they're gonna be able to produce sensors for cell phones. That'll be better than what's currently in mirrorless cameras right now. 

[00:49:47] Gerald Saunders: Wouldn't surprise me, close my mind 

[00:49:49] Matthew Holliday: blow my mind 

[00:49:50] Gerald Saunders: and, and not to go. Too laborious on camera equipment, but 

[00:49:56] Matthew Holliday: I love my camera. I don't wanna give out my camera. 

[00:49:59] Gerald Saunders: well, but I'm just talking about, you were talking about photographers and their gear and 

[00:50:03] Matthew Holliday: It's almost like it's a status symbol. It's a status. 

[00:50:06] Gerald Saunders: Yeah, I was gonna say it's almost like comparing penis eyes 

[00:50:08] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Look at my lens. right. But my, my 

[00:50:12] Gerald Saunders: camera, I it's a, my current camera that I use for my stills is a, is a can seven D seven. The, the letter D 

[00:50:21] Matthew Holliday: very impressive. 

[00:50:23] Gerald Saunders: except, but the, but, but now they have other ones that are like the D mark three and the D mark four. And they like, there's my camera's from 2012 

[00:50:32] Matthew Holliday: Mm-hmm 

[00:50:33] Gerald Saunders: and it works just as fucking good. 

And I don't need to have a bigger image size than it does because I'm gonna reduce 'em to be small on the internet. Anyhow. So I don't need some camera that can make a fucking billboard on the strip. Which my camera probably could anyway. So I, you know, I don't feel it's necessary. Oh, I need a new camera, cuz I need to make a bigger image size that I'm just gonna reduce down to internet size anyway. 

[00:51:02] Matthew Holliday: so 

[00:51:03] Gerald Saunders: that's my speech about camera sizes. Yeah. And that's all that says. 

[00:51:07] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Well, one of the things that we kind of talked about before we started too, was you're not trying to make video. 

That's like professional, like vivid quality video either.  

[00:51:19] Gerald Saunders: No, 

I never have, for me, I don't think it's necessary. I'm not trying to be. 

I'm gonna name companies. I'm not tr I'm not trying to be vivid or wicked or browsers or digital playground.  

[00:51:32] Matthew Holliday: hardly anybody is cuz I, I, if I recall correctly, like the vivid business model doesn't work anymore. 

[00:51:37] Gerald Saunders: Well, I just meant their production quality. 

I'm not trying to be vivid or wicked or, or, or team skeet or browsers or digital playground. 

And it's not that I can't cuz actually a couple of those companies have actually shot scenes for, but, but primarily I'm just trying to be me. So I don't want everything to look like two amateur. I want the quality to be professional, but I want my work to be basically what is called or at least I call it is ProAm it's like amateur, it's like professionally amateur shot, but that's with intent. 

You know, if I wanted to shoot. higher quality. It wouldn't be that hard for me to do. I just don't want to, 

[00:52:26] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. Like I don't, like, I like Playboy is okay. And like penthouse is okay. But none of it looks real. None of it looks like real people that I could meet when I'm walking down the street. 

[00:52:39] Gerald Saunders: Well, that's kind of, that's kind of how I feel about the way I shoot. 

For example, I don't wanna hire a girl, a makeup artist. And if you don't know how to do your makeup, that's okay. Just do it. Like you're going to the mall. 

Cuz you're gonna look like a real girl. If you do that. And probably 97% of my scenes were like that. 

[00:53:02] Matthew Holliday: a girl  

[00:53:02] Gerald Saunders: came over and she had her make, she did her makeup and it was really good, I'm not gonna go, Ooh, take that off right. 

But, and I'm not saying the quality of the makeup of the girls that I seen, that I shoot is bad. I want it to be natural. I want, you know, if you're gonna go to the mall and wear light makeup, so you look pretty, that's what I want you to look like in my scenes. I don't want you to look like some crazy makeup done overblown. 

[00:53:32] Matthew Holliday: Well, it's the feeling you're going for? Like those, those companies we mentioned before are wicked and such and Playboy and penthouse, they're going for high fantasy. Right. They're going for stuff that doesn't really exist in real life. Right. 

Or it only exists on, you know, Saturday night at some expensive club somewhere like, 

[00:53:48] Gerald Saunders: Right. I'm I'm what I'm trying to shoot is girl, next door. Even if it's some girl. That is a really super known now, 

[00:53:57] Matthew Holliday: but you don't want it to be too amateur cuz they have real amateur ones are usually terrible. Like terrible Dem lighting. It's incredibly like grain as hell. Cuz it's like ISO like 3,200 or something and everything. It's just incredibly grainy and fuzzy and it's always like zoomed in on like, oh here's a breast. 

Here's the ceiling. 

[00:54:19] Gerald Saunders: yeah, I don't, I, I, I avoid that I guess, to tie a bow on that. So to speak, it matters more to me that it doesn't look and I'm not saying I don't like the way browsers or team ski shoots, but they're higher production on a scale of one 

[00:54:36] Matthew Holliday: to they're they're shooting for a specific look and a specific feel. 

Right. Um, 

[00:54:40] Gerald Saunders: Pro wise on a scale of one to 10 they're 12. And I feel like I might be like may eight or nine 

[00:54:49] Matthew Holliday: Mm. 

[00:54:49] Gerald Saunders: as far as what the quality looks like. Like, I don't think I'm, my quality looks like a three , you know, like you, like you described with crazy grainy stuff or whatever, that, that's why I kind of, like, I was exaggerating a little bit on a scale of one to 10, to me they're like 12. 

[00:55:04] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I know. I know. 

[00:55:05] Gerald Saunders: So, so, but like, I like my camera work to be eight or nine, but my feel to be six or seven. So it averages out to kind of be a seven 

[00:55:16] Matthew Holliday: or eight. That's good. 

[00:55:17] Gerald Saunders: You know, 

[00:55:18] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:55:18] Gerald Saunders: without, without me, cuz I try to make the quality as best as I can. But without trying too hard to make it look too good. 

[00:55:29] Matthew Holliday: Uh, no, cuz that's the fantasy. Cuz if the fantasy is the girl next door and you make it look too good, then it takes you outta the fantasy. And you're just like, it's like, oh this something about this feels wrong, but I don't know what it is. 

[00:55:40] Gerald Saunders: Well, that's why I get a lot of feedback and compliments from wherever I get them from from fan. 

I mean, cuz I might email me or they might message me through many bids or whoever you. 

Man. I really like your stuff, cuz it looks real. Yeah. Well that's like, I can't tell you how many times I've heard that over the past years and that's the compliment I want, I don't want them to compliment me, compliment me on what I look like or whatever. 

Cuz I wanna look like me and that I'm somebody's dad step dad, you know, I don't want to, 

[00:56:13] Matthew Holliday: you 

[00:56:13] Gerald Saunders: what I mean? I just wanna, I wanna look like, I almost feel like I wanna look like I could inspire guys that are in my age bracket that if they really wanted to, they could do this too, but they'd have to do it the right way. 

[00:56:27] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. There's there's it's yeah, it's funny that we didn't get to this question at all, but there's been so many women of all sizes getting in and there's been a lot fewer guys of all sizes getting in, but there's been some so it's but one 

[00:56:41] Gerald Saunders: one thing that you had previously asked me about too, was record keeping stuff. 

If you wanna touch on that 

[00:56:45] Matthew Holliday: Oh, sure. Yeah. How do you do your record keeping? So, 

[00:56:47] Gerald Saunders: sure. Yeah. How do you do your record keeping? So, and I thought that was important, so I remembered it. Um, so see that big ass filing cabinet over there. 

[00:56:55] Matthew Holliday: that is a pretty big filing cabinet. It's a, it's a, it's probably four feet tall, three, four, 

[00:56:59] Gerald Saunders: it's a giant four drawer 

[00:57:01] Matthew Holliday: four doors.  

[00:57:03] Gerald Saunders: two of those drawer. 

[00:57:05] Matthew Holliday: shooting with Raven. 

I see Raven on your calendar. 

[00:57:07] Gerald Saunders: That was when I did shoot with Raven. 

[00:57:09] Matthew Holliday: last week. 

[00:57:10] Gerald Saunders: Oh couple. I think it was in February. Um, 

yeah, I think the last time me and her shot was February. Um, but two of those drawers completely filled with model releases  

[00:57:23] Matthew Holliday: Gotcha and  

[00:57:23] Gerald Saunders: I mean all the way, 

[00:57:24] Matthew Holliday: 11 50 something forms or whatever they're called 

[00:57:27] Gerald Saunders: the 2, 2 

[00:57:27] Matthew Holliday: 57, 2, 2 57. 

Yeah. You can tell I've never filled one out 

[00:57:32] Gerald Saunders: actually helped create that form. Really? Yeah. Um, but. Tho those doors have model releases literally all the way back to like 1995. Geez. 

[00:57:42] Matthew Holliday: Geez.  

[00:57:43] Gerald Saunders: And 

they're filed in folders per girl's name. And if I've shot with her more than once that folder's got all the model releases in it, the other drawers have other paperwork and stuff that have to do with things or be blank model releases and whatever in the top drawers. 

But additionally though, because that's paper 

and 

paper's good, cuz you need to keep the paper, right. Everything is also scanned digitally. I have it backed up on three different computer hard drives because of something fails. Got it back. And of course with the digital I'm scanning their IDs and the pictures that I'm holding their IDs and whatever. 

And I, with that, I don't print those out and stick those in there cuz that's just a waste of ink. So every, everything is digital. and, but I had paper backups too, um, of their model release. And then the 2, 2, 5, 7 form. 

[00:58:37] Matthew Holliday: Has anybody come and asked you about this?  

[00:58:38] Gerald Saunders: Never Never,  

[00:58:39] Matthew Holliday: never. 

[00:58:40] Gerald Saunders: And this is a topic why I, Brooke, kind of brought this up record keeping so different clip stores and different places have decided they're gonna make up their own 2 20, 57 record keeping rules that are not, 

[00:58:55] Matthew Holliday: oh boy, 

[00:58:56] Gerald Saunders: that are not the us government. 

2, 2 57 record keeping. And I could talk about this for an hour, but I'm gonna talk about it for three minutes 

[00:59:04] Matthew Holliday: So 

[00:59:04] Gerald Saunders: that you don't hate me. 

[00:59:05] Matthew Holliday: minutes 

[00:59:06] Gerald Saunders: So the actual 2 20 57 law from the government is you need a model release and a copy of their photo ID that proves that they were 18 or over at the time of production. 

That's the law period. You don't need six forms of ID and you don't need a fucking picture of them, mulling it by your face. And you don't. And I'm talking about is per the government. You just need that. That's what you need now outta nowhere, every one of these clip stores now determines they want their own different rules, but you can't grandfather in what I did 17 years ago. 

So you 

[00:59:43] Matthew Holliday: back in time. 

[00:59:45] Gerald Saunders: so, so probably half of the clip stores, let you rely on your own. 2, 2 57 record 2, 2 57 record keeping. Yes, I have like even PornHub. Yes, I have the model releases and IDs. Cool. You're good to go Gerald, but, but some of them, many bids, I want clips, AP clips, and a couple of them. 

Literally you have to get the girls added into your, in clips for sale too. You have to get the girls added into their system where they've approved your. Record keeping, even though I keep it on track here. 

Yeah. So it's a big jumble of who does what 

but the only one that really is a pain in the ass is only fans, 

[01:00:30] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And know, frankly, they're trying to get out of the Eroica business. 

So, 

but they can't cuz it's too much money. 

[01:00:36] Gerald Saunders: Right. 

[01:00:37] Matthew Holliday: So Gerald, do you have any projects you wanna plug 

mostly  

[01:00:40] Gerald Saunders: primarily to keep it simple is my Las Vegas amateurs.com site, um, and expose bondage.com site and to find a lot of my other stuff, just to keep that simple. If you go to link tree, your link tree, whatever that is. I mean, I know what it is, but I think it's just link tree.com/ Gerald Saunders. That'll link to all my other stuff without me rattling off stuff for about an hour. 

[01:01:08] Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. All right. And that's where everyone can find you online or do you wanna what's your Twitter? 

[01:01:12] Gerald Saunders: Oh yeah. Well, they can, well, I have a bunch of Twitter accounts, but my main one is Gerald Saunders, G E R a L D S a U N D E R S. Um, that's and that's my, uh, what do you call it? Um, I have a, I have an Instagram with that and a Facebook page. That's Gerald Saunders, LV, Las Vegas, LV.  

[01:01:37] Matthew Holliday: you probably don't put much on the Facebook page. 

[01:01:39] Gerald Saunders: No, I just put random stuff or behind the scenes pictures or, you know, cute, not too risque pictures of models and stuff. I'm I really don't use that avenue too much, but even the same kind of thing on my, uh, on Instagram, I just post like some behind the scenes stuff or, you know, when I go to the AVN, cuz when I go to the AVN convention, for example, I cover that as a media for the magazine that I mentioned before. 

but I'm still going as Gerald Saunders. So I'll take okay. Pictures that are okay to put up in places 

[01:02:14] Matthew Holliday: That makes sense. Thank you for coming on Gerald. 

[01:02:16] Gerald Saunders: Appreciate it. Thank 

[01:02:18] Matthew Holliday: All right. And with that, we are done. Check us out@thesfwphotographypodcast.com on Twitter is at NSFW photography, Instagram at the NSFW photography podcast. 

And subscribe on your favorite podcast app. 

[01:02:32] Gerald Saunders: you.