NSFW Pod 034 - Fetish Modeling with Ziva Fey

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[00:00:00] Matthew Holliday: Good day, everyone. And welcome back to the not safe for work photography podcast. There are thousands of models and photographers, creating adult content, using modern platforms and taking control of their own creative lives. Although, you know, after that conversation, we just had, I should probably add producers to that. Oh, well, today we're interviewing Ziva Fey is a Phoenix based traveling nude model modeling since 2012, she currently makes her living as a content creator. How are we doing today's Ziva? 

[00:00:39] Ziva Fey: I am doing great. Thank you so much for having me on this podcast. 

[00:00:44] Matthew Holliday: I know I am super excited too. Although I am not going to be able to match your energy level.  

[00:00:50] Ziva Fey: That's okay. I'm very, this is me. This is my energy level. I'm very well known for being a little, little force dynamite. 

[00:00:59] Matthew Holliday: Our topic today is fetish work as a model. We've definitely had. And the past, but it's a popular topic and a lot of photographers, a lot of producers and a lot of models want to do it. So we're going to keep discussing it as long as we've got new things to talk about. So I always like to start with how you got into modeling. 

You mentioned in your bio and on your website that you've been modeling since 2012, you started with art nude, live modeling. your superhero origin story. How'd you get into that?  

[00:01:32] Ziva Fey: I like telling this story. I feel like my story is a little different, it's a little more unconventional than your average model. I graduated high school in 2012 and I was one of those kids who went straight into college. I went into junior college at the local community college, literally down the street from my house. 

I could walk to it. And my first semester I took nothing but stem classes and my, my little 18 year old brain was so just on fire that the second semester of college, I was like, I need something for the other half of my brain. And I actually literally was like feeling depressed and stuff because I wasn't being creative for that whole semester. So I took an art class where I drew models the second semester of college. 

And it was really fun. And the first, like maybe eight weeks went by and I got really familiar and close with the professor who actually is the reason why I got into modeling. He was my model mentor. And I'm a model that was like the main model. She just didn't show up. She had some medical issues and he was like, well, I guess classes canceled, go home. 

And I actually had just a lot of family issues at the time and domestic issues and I was paying for college out of my own. So I was that odd student that went up to him and I was like, Hey, can you please not send us home? Can you like, can you put out a fruit bowl or, or can, can you put out a little, little log or a cup for us to draw instead or paint? 

 And I was sitting on this thing called a horse, which is like, oh, a little wooden device to put your easel on. Instead of like the classic easel thing that you sit in the chair. And I was I'm, I was 18, 19, and I was sitting on it. I know kind of an odd little gargoyle position, to be honest with you. 

And he, he commented when I asked that question, he was like, you're sitting in a very odd position, like, is that comfortable? Or are you like, he didn't address my question. He just asked that instead. And I was like, like, what? Like I'm fi what? Like art, can we do the, can I stay in class or not? And then he was. 

Oh, why don't you model? Do you want a model for it instead? I was just like, , does it pay? It was like the first thing I said. Yeah. And mind you, this is back in 2012 where I was a waitress and I literally made like $2 and 35 cents an hour. 

And he was like, yeah. And I believe it paid $18 and 66 cents an hour. So as an 18 year old, back in 2012, I was like, holy moly. I like, I jogged. He was like, you gotta go to them to the front office though. I had to fill out some paperwork really quick to make it me illegal worker at the school. 

And I was like, I, I got the paperwork done. I could bottle. And he was just like, oh, okay. Let's, let's do it. And I was like, I'm nervous though. Classes halfway over. He's like, yeah, we'll, we'll have you start modeling for my next classes.  

And I sat down and I, I talked to him. I was like, I don't want, I don't want Stacy to see me naked and George, and I'm just making up names. My classmates see me naked. He's like, okay. Then since you're in the system, we'll go to the other college. And we, we drove 60 miles to Florence, Arizona the next day to central Arizona college, which is a community college. 

And this is this is the funniest part of the whole story. I went all out of my way. So I wouldn't see one of my peers to see me naked. Right. I went all the way that college, it was such a far drive. I was so. And I was in the little like room changing and then they were like, okay, you're supposed to walk out into the stage into the classroom naked. 

And I took off my robe and I walked up and I'm like in the zone, like I'm not really looking at the students' faces quite yet. And I was like, okay, what should I do? What posts should I do? And so my my instructor, my professor, he was like, you are a martial artist. 

And so he was like, do, do TaeKwonDo poses and ballet poses because that's what I was proficient in. So I did a lot of like basic ballet and TaeKwonDo poses. And then as I'm doing a TaeKwonDo pose, about 15 minutes into me posing you know, the fog, the fog of the nervousness and the adrenaline of being naked in front of people kind of starts lifting. 

and I'm slowly looking around and somebody I work with at Outback steak houses right in front of me painting me. 

[00:06:03] Matthew Holliday: Oh boy.  

[00:06:05] Ziva Fey: So literally after that moment, I was like, fuck it. I'm just going to go back to my school, down the street from my house and model. I was like, literally I went through all that work to avoid somebody I knew to see me naked. And it happened the very first. So I was like, whatever. So I modeled it. So after that I modeled exclusively for the community colleges for like four years. 

 And then the way I transitioned into photo modeling is I was in the classroom standing, Megan, and this guy we'll call him Bob he's my age. 

And Bob was super nice. And he walked up to me and the photography class and the like painting sculpting class were like, they were connected, but they weren't, they were like in the same building, but there was a hallway across from each other. So I would always like sit in the hallway. So all the photography students like saw me cause I'd be in my robe. 

Like I'd walk out of the classroom when I got my breaks. And he walked up to me at the end of the very last class of, of the last semester in 2016. And he said you know, it's a close to, it was close to, it was, he had his final. So this is like mid November cause classes and mid, mid December, he said, can I take some photos of you for my photography class? 

For my final? I said, absolutely not. And he was like, and I was like, bye Bob. I started walking away. Like literally I was like, Nope, Nope, Nope. And he like walked up to me and he was like, Hey, I don't know if I was very clear. I don't want to take nude pictures of you. I would like you to wear that dress that you wore to school a few weeks ago, that cowgirl dress. 

And I, and then that intrigued me. I was like, I'm listening. Like, and he's like, and you know, it's, as 2016, I was still going to college. I was like 22 at the time. I was in community college, still finishing up my associates and doing modeling and bartending. And he was, he said he wanted to photograph me in dress. 

He said, Prince of the photos. And then he said, I'll pick you up and I'll buy you lunch. And then I was like, I'm listening. Yeah. 

[00:08:21] Matthew Holliday: You know, that's interesting. I've never really thought about it, but models for art drawing classes get paid So much less. than photography  

[00:08:29] Ziva Fey: So much less. And I actually did some art modeling a few years ago to try it again. And it only paid 25 an hour. And I was like, but I'm still naked in front of everybody. And like  

[00:08:43] Matthew Holliday: in front of more people.  

[00:08:44] Ziva Fey: more people. And in my opinion, I'm doing more work because, so I'm not a flow poser. I am, I call it, I do the robot really fast. 

Like that's yeah. That's the type of modeling I do is I do the robot essentially. when I am holding a pose on stage in front of a class, I am posing. I'm flexing. Like my core is working and for me, holding it for a long time is, is a lot of work. And I have actually heavily posed for upwards to, it was close to five hours. 

I didn't make it to five hours. I started, my muscles did start atrophying and I was like, I'm so sorry. I have to sit down guys. It was a, it's a lot of work for, well, yeah, it's it's I, and I'm not sure why that is. I think maybe it's just because of the consumer market in that maybe that where the photos have the possibility to go, such as like bent box, Manny vids, only fans. 

Whereas like you took, let's say a hundred, two machine gun in, in a 10 minute span, whereas like you're sitting there for three hours and they only produced one photo or one image because it's not like a drawing a sculpture of painting. 

[00:10:00] Matthew Holliday: maybe, maybe, maybe a photographers too are used to paying more, just cause their equipment so much more expensive than an artists.  

[00:10:08] Ziva Fey: You know, I hear you, but I also don't know if that's completely, entirely fair to say, because you know, sculpting and painting gear is expensive. Like oil paints are pricey.  

Canvases are pricey.  

Yeah.  

[00:10:24] Matthew Holliday: you have to keep buying more of them. Whereas with photography, it's usually a one-time expense unless you're using film.  

[00:10:28] Ziva Fey: Typically it's a one-time investment with warranties, whereas, right. Whereas like, and here's the thing too, if you're, let's say you're blue 42 of oil paint busts open, you might have a lot of other stuff ruined. So which has happened to me.  

[00:10:49] Matthew Holliday: That's fair.  

[00:10:50] Ziva Fey: Yeah. So, my, yeah, so that's kind of my origin story. I went from in-person modeling to photography with you know, a friend with the experience and that, that photo experience. 

My first photo shoot was actually very magical for me in the sense that he took me to, he took me to the, it was it's called Koons bluff here in Arizona. And it's part of the salt river. It's called the saguaro lake area and I'm modeling. And it's my first time, like, you know, doing photos and a bunch of wild horses came up behind me. 

And so for me with what I was going through in life, like I, at the time I was honestly going through a really hard time in my life. And it was I really fun experience. I was treated very well by the student, Bob. Like he, he drove me, he, he gave, he did give me a meal. He gave me a little tip. He did give me the F some prints back. 

And I, I was having fun, like, around in my dress, on the desert and posing against trees. And then he gave me a little, you know, it was very basic. He gave me the fabric to wave around very amateur stuff. And when the horses came, I just, it was kind of a magical moment and like, not to be super cheesy, but my grandma had only been passed a few months at that point. 

And she was like, my, my person. So it was a very like mystical and like, It was kind of like, oh, we're, you're meant to be here kind of thing. Like something was there. And ever since that photo shoot, I actually approached a, another friend who she had a camera and I was like, will you take pictures of me? 

She's and then she splattered paint all over me. And she like put flowers on her bed. And I was like, this, this fun, you know, now it's much more of a job and it's still fun, but it's I don't get that, that creative, new than, you know, new, oh, this is a new experience, but I still love what I do. And my origin story, I think keeps me very humble. 

And I think that it's actually really interesting for people to hear because I'm kind of classically trained in modeling in the sense that I modeled in a school and had professors and teachers be like, don't do this, do this. That's great. You're like  

[00:13:06] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:13:07] Ziva Fey: rule of thirds, all this stuff, like, yeah,  

[00:13:10] Matthew Holliday: yeah. Interesting.  

[00:13:12] Ziva Fey: yeah.  

[00:13:12] Matthew Holliday: did you get into the fetish modeling?  

[00:13:14] Ziva Fey: Okay. 

Accidentally 

[00:13:17] Matthew Holliday: You showed up to the shoot and he whipped out some ropes and you're like, oh shit.  

[00:13:21] Ziva Fey: kind of actually very close. Okay. So I started doing so little, very we're actually right past the origin story. So past the origin story, maybe about six months and I'm a Facebook and Instagram model at this point, right. I don't know what I'm doing, guys. I don't know what I'm doing, but I am damn fucking try my best. 

I made an Instagram page. I made a Facebook page. I joined these modeling groups, face book, modeling groups, this and that. And I'm posting my little V semi edited pictures. And I'm getting back from people and being like, would you like to book me? So I saw there is this guy on Facebook. He's a local producer, some girls with handcuffs on, and they're all cute college. 

Bright eyed, bushy tailed, my age, all of them look happy or they're like acting damsel and stressy. I actually contacted him. Cause at, at that point I was not well known. And I was at that stage where I was reaching out to photographers to build my portfolio and the handcuff photos just honestly intrigued me. 

I was just like, what? And I I've, I've been in some legal trouble too, so I was familiar with being in handcuffs at that point. So I, yeah, so I messaged him and I was like, I love to work for you. This looks like a cool photo shoot or blah, he set it up and it, it was kind of the actual opposite of a bait and switch that when I got there. 

It was like such a professional endeavor. He had a makeup artist and they sat me a chair and she started, I was like why? And there was like, oh yeah. And there was a woman assistant onset to woman assistant. And to the point where the guy who owned it, I didn't even know, or that he was the owner because he was so, in the back, like letting the women and his employees run the show, which was really cool. 

And I thought the assistant was the owner. I thought his assistant Diane was like the owner. And I was like, and at the, actually she, she had me in canned cuffs and she put me, she did some word raw with handcuffs on, with a cute little pink dress and like made some damsel in distress faces. And I was like, this is a really, this was really fun. 

What am I going to get my photos? And she, she ha she goes, no, no, no, honey, you're getting money, not photos. I was like, what. 

But I didn't. And that's when I learned that day was when I learned that the difference between TFP like trade for print, trade for photos, trade for content and being paid. And that in your, if you're paid you're, you're technically not a lot of the rights to the photos. And I consider it just as a side, if anybody does pay me and give me photos back, I consider that a sign of good faith, a tip and or a gift. 

So I always really, really appreciate that. And it's a very kind gesture, but when I was learning I was like, especially back then, I was like $150 for an hour work. Like 

mind you to give you guys some perspective. I worked at the chain at the time I was modeling on my off days, like my one or two days off a week, I was working at the chain Buca di Beppo. And I was the like weekday bartender dinner waitress. And I made $250 for 13 hours of work on Christmas. So getting that money for one hour of work on not Christmas was like, was, it was crazy. 

Awesome. It's just so crazy. Awesome. Like, so that's how I fell into fetish modeling because I realized I can get paid $150 for an hour to be idiotic. Like I I'm really good at it. Like I'm really, I'm very silly and a vivacious. I, and I see any idiotic endearingly person because you've probably seen, or if you guys haven't seen check me out my onscreen persona is very eccentric and I, I don't know. 

It just, it was, it was just a really cool situation. And that's how I fell into fodder fetish modeling. And there was a few models that worked for that guy that worked for fem wrestling rooms. And they were like, you should go wrestle for him. I was like, oh, I want to to some other models, I was like, well, if there's another producer that pays the same, like, and it's like other type of fetish, and they were like, it's wrestling instead of handcuffs. 

And I was like, well, I have a, like, I was working on my black belt at the time I have my block, but now I was like, well, I'm working on my black belt. Like, I love to fight. I'm kind of like a pain like this. I was like, it just kept sounding sweeter and more awesome and more awesome. And it is, I love fetish modeling. 

That's how I fell into it. I literally fell into it. I didn't even know I was doing a fetish modeling gig that, that, that handcuff gig, I thought I was just kind of modeling with a cute, shiny prop on, and then later down the road, I was like, oh, that's fetish. 

[00:18:43] Matthew Holliday: We'll just kind of interesting. It is interesting that just the addition of the handcuffs.  

[00:18:50] Ziva Fey: Yeah, because it was literally the same exact like boardwalk, like, cute girl on a bed, bright eyed, bushy tail stuff that I was doing the months prior. The only thing that really did make a different is there. I was now wearing handcuffs and  

I just, yeah,  

[00:19:07] Matthew Holliday: on a different body part.  

[00:19:09] Ziva Fey: yeah. I did wear shackles and I were cuffs and interchange them and yeah. 

And so, and I didn't understand that it was fetish actually at first. Took me awhile to kind of learn the difference between like, oh, this is art, this is art nude. This is glamour nude. This is fetish. Oh, this is penthouse. Like it did take me yeah. Wild inexperience to yeah. And experience. And also like talking to other models and producers, and be like, what'd you, you charge for you doing this? 

Or like, what do you pay models doing this kind of thing. Yeah. 

[00:19:48] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, I see. I like that. you. 

lay out your fees on your site. I find that a lot of models don't and It can be somewhat anxiety inducing kind of have that discussion with models. 

[00:19:59] Ziva Fey: It can show, I actually, I read your message earlier about how, and I feel it the same way on the other end. It can be anxiety inducing to tell you my prices, because sometimes I don't know, but like, Certain people can just have a certain expectation or standard or, or lack of knowledge, or even just thinking that they they're so awesome or stuff like that. 

So it kind of makes it for me in my experience, it does cut out some unnecessary, fat off the meat of the conversation where I can go here are my different rates and packages. You look at what interests you. And then, then you can come to me and say, I'm interested in two hours of penthouse, or I'd like to do a day rate package that has multiple stuff where we do some laundry, some nude and some explicit. 

And like, and I, I ended up doing most packages too, because I having so many different photographers book me for packages and stuff. And I, I honestly wanted it to become consistent because I was, I was starting. A lot of emails, especially like during the pandemic, like right when the pandemic started, I started getting a lot more people asking for, for like full days. 

Like they wanted to book 5, 8, 10 hours at a time, which is awesome, but I didn't want the negotiation between me and the photographer to be different between me and other photographers and essentially make my business or packages unfair to anybody. So I feel like doing that in, so really makes it clear, concise, and fair across a fair experience across the board in booking me in my time to everyone. 

[00:21:47] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And we'll talk, we'll do some more talking about rates later, but  

[00:21:50] Ziva Fey: Yeah.  

[00:21:51] Matthew Holliday: the gun on that. So, what do you find photographers typically mostly book you for two hours shoots half days or full days.  

[00:21:57] Ziva Fey: Mostly it's two to four hours. Those are like the. What I'm mostly used to two to four hours. And then I'm, I do get quite a few ha half day and full day, but those are usually more with photographers who were, where you are traveling on location to a really pretty spot. And I have quite a few who will do that with me regularly. 

So like they booked the eight hour full day because they know that we're tip, we're actually only getting five hours of shooting because we're going to drive to red rock. But  

I, yeah, but I feel like that's actually it. I, what I do is I cap my, my day rate at the five hours to give you the basically three hours of travel time, which I feel like is very fair and I've discussed with other photographers and they're like, that's very generous. 

It's essentially three hours of free trout travel time. So, and I have gone with photographers to there from point a to point B. Before in one day. And that was fun.  

[00:23:03] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense for that.  

[00:23:06] Ziva Fey: Yeah. 

[00:23:06] Matthew Holliday: Speaking of travel, I see that you've started including their traveling fee.  

[00:23:10] Ziva Fey: A few different things. And my traveling fees really low, like it's really low, but there was basically a few gigs where I drove two or three hours to location alone myself, and like the expectations weren't met and I'm like, so I just like, I have to make sure that I. Come out in, in the red that I at least come out, even there there's just been a, you know, models experience. 

No call, no shows, just like how photographers do so I've, I've driven on location a few times and like how I've had expectations, just not be met or communication and where we've decided maybe the shoot isn't going to be for us trade or, oh, I thought you, you know, an email you said you're going to be here and you're going to have, we're going to have a lunch or, and we're an hour away and I'm starving. 

So just like, just to make it more. Yeah, just as I just started getting a little more ELs than I wanted. And also to be honest with you, I get why everyone knows gas is very pricey right now. So yeah, at a unfortunately. I have been doing this for quite a while. And with, to backtrack a little bit, my rates have actually never increased. 

[00:24:39] Matthew Holliday: Well, since the rates have come back again, I guess we might as well jump into it. Have you gotten any feedback on the explicit rate menu from other photographers or other models?  

[00:24:49] Ziva Fey: Yeah. So I've actually gotten a really mixed comments on it, to be honest with you. So I'm not sure how I entirely feel about my, my rate menu. I think it's very clear, but I've had a few like editorial photographers be like, you shouldn't increase your rates by explicitness. And I'm like, and they're like that devalues you as a human, but I, but then they're, they're not really in the like sex work or adult industry. 

And then I've had other people who are more in the sex worker, adult industry, and they're like, I do the same thing and increase my rates as explicit nuts increases or they're like, yeah, well that looks similar to my rates. Like I do. They're like, yeah, I do similar packages. So I've, I've heard a really mixed. 

Reaction also, it's really mixed on the answer. Whether it's a photographer or model, the models are like, oh, that those rates are great. Like dare like charge more. The photographers usually are like, oh, I have some, you know, and I do, I do say in my rates open to negotiation, . 

[00:25:57] Matthew Holliday: I do think it's, I think it's nice for photographers who have a, who have a budget so they can see, and they can know like this is in or out of my budget.  

[00:26:09] Ziva Fey: Yup. I actually will ask photographers. Do you have a budget sometimes? And if their budgets like $300, be like, okay, would you like two hours of explicit? Do you want this? What can we do to make this time the most customizable, useful, and best experience for you? Because I do see it as like they're booking there. 

It's there. When you're booking time with me, I view it as your customizable experience with me. that doesn't mean you get to do whatever the fuck you want, but that means you have a lot of leeway to, you know, I want to do this. I want to do some artistic nudes. I want to, can you pose like that? You know, I'm very open to collaboration and conversation. 

[00:26:49] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. There is one step that I'm kind of unsure of. Well, two things, of all, younger photographers understand the difference between Playboy and penthouse style.  

[00:26:59] Ziva Fey: Dude who, 

okay. I can not tell you how many emails. I actually get almost daily asking me the difference between Playboy and penthouse. So I'm just going to sidebar. And so everyone can know what Ziva Faye's definition of Playboy penthouses. Okay. Playboy is my legs are open I'm smiling. My legs are open. 

Penthouse is imposing. I'm smiling. My legs are open my hands are spreading my labia  

[00:27:31] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. Gotcha.  

[00:27:33] Ziva Fey: that's the difference. It's like the actual posing of the vagina and like,  

[00:27:38] Matthew Holliday: yeah,  

[00:27:39] Ziva Fey: yeah, like your hands down there. It's. So,  

[00:27:42] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:27:43] Ziva Fey: but no, I don't feel like a lot of people know the difference. I get asked all the time, like all the time. 

[00:27:53] Matthew Holliday: That's funny. All right. Cause I was actually, that was going to be the second thing I thought. So when I think Playboy style, I was actually thinking glamor nude. I was not thinking open like generally when I think open leg. Benton house what you described to spend house, but you're right. There is between simply being open leg then, you know, actively doing something.  

[00:28:13] Ziva Fey: Exactly. And so, and when I say open leg for Playboy, I don't mean like I'm sitting there and like super spreading, like  

[00:28:20] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:28:21] Ziva Fey: open leg position. I mean, it's just like poses where I'm not  

my legs aren't together, you know, maybe like a crisscross applesauce and like cute and like holding a soda can or something like that. 

Exactly. Like there's a different implication with posing that specific body. To not.  

[00:28:40] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. Interesting.  

[00:28:41] Ziva Fey: And yeah. And with my anatomy, like not, I mean, this is the not safe for work podcast. Right. I  

[00:28:49] Matthew Holliday: We, we have, the explicit tag. That's fine.  

[00:28:52] Ziva Fey: Like to be a little, safe for work. I have a very long labia. So like I do have to use my hands and my fingers to like, do a finger spread to like pose it out. 

I've had so many girls literally like me modeling and they're like, your labor is really long. I'm like, yeah. So what it would have would have games and they're like, you haven't cut it off. And I'm like, what. Yeah. And I've met, like I even had a roommate and she was like, dude, I cut mine off. 

Mine were as long as yours. And I was  

like, well, yup.  

And I was just like, what, why would you do, because for me, it's actually part of my marketing. Like people know I have a long labor, like a very long Libya and like my customers like it about me. And like, they, I mean that it's me. I have a long Libya. 

Like 

[00:29:42] Matthew Holliday: No. And we've, we've spoken with models in the past to the same thing with body hair and stuff like that because  

[00:29:50] Ziva Fey: it there,  

[00:29:51] Matthew Holliday: yeah.  

[00:29:51] Ziva Fey: parts. 

[00:29:52] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. There's, there's a strong desire for people that look natural. I think that's a big part of why only fans and stuff like that are so popular. Now. People want real people, they got sick and tired of the eighties and nineties, the cookie cutter Barbie types that all have identical vaginas and identical inflated boobs.  

[00:30:11] Ziva Fey: And I think. A little bit of actually be turbulence that a real person goes through. Like this is going to sound a bit odd, but I think that the fans actually like to see like that we have bad days and that we actually don't post like celebrities. Like it's awesome all the time, always. 

And that, because it allows them to intervene in a sense, and like send, send us a gift, send us a tip, make our lives better in ways that actually directly impact us. And then we, we can know, we literally notice them and we might send them a thank you or  

[00:30:48] Matthew Holliday: Yeah,  

[00:30:49] Ziva Fey: build, build a actual relationship with the fan in that way. 

And  

I, yeah, like there's an easier way to literally build a personable relationship with the quote unquote famous person, which, you know, we're all famous, I guess, in different degrees with how we do this. And it's, it's actually really cool because a lot of people, like, as I meet them, like some people are so star struck when they meet me. 

And I'm just like, I'm just, I'm just seeing the Fe like what the,  

[00:31:18] Matthew Holliday: Yeah,  

[00:31:18] Ziva Fey: yeah. 

[00:31:19] Matthew Holliday: no celebrities are like gods celebrities or like. Myths at a distance there they're impossible. They're shining and golden, but content creators, especially like the whole point. The whole point of content creators is somebody that you can legitimately fall in love with someone who theoretically could be living next to you and you can meet.  

[00:31:40] Ziva Fey: Right. And I asked her, think about content. Creators is kind of what I said is, is the interaction that a lot of us do interact with our fans in literally some way, even if it's a small way that says thanks for subscribing or just the fact that our only fans is there. And we're like, Hey, thank you. Like you can order a custom from me, even if we haven't been like, thank you so much, Nathan. 

I really appreciate you sending me. Bubble tea. Yeah. Which happens like I have, you know, you, I personally develop relationships when, when I do go through hardships and people do do kind acts of kindness for me. I don't, I personally don't forget it. And it puts them in a little bucket for me that is like, okay, they're, they're kind of a super special, nice fan. 

And like, I try my best to repay those people too, in, in small ways. Like I prioritize sending, like I am, like I said, the very beginning editing is not my skillset, but like for those few people I will try and really edit them their customs fast or them like a little feet pick and be like, thanks for the $5. 

I'm gonna enjoy my salad later. You know, stuff like that. 

[00:32:50] Matthew Holliday: All right. I had other other. Right related questions, but we need to move on to the actual fetish related questions. Cause this is supposed to be a fetish related by guest.  

[00:33:02] Ziva Fey: No problem,  

[00:33:03] Matthew Holliday: No worries. You've been doing fetish related stuff for sounds like five or six years. Has it changed at all since you've started?  

[00:33:10] Ziva Fey: Yes and no. I'm going to say it's changed in the sense of like, I've learned more. I know more what I'm doing. I know how to play the game more.  

[00:33:21] Matthew Holliday: The game,  

[00:33:22] Ziva Fey: Yeah. And what I mean by that is like how to be professional, how to book, what the psychology of a lot of fetishes are. That for me was actually really difficult. 

I was hired by some, when I first started doing fetish stuff, I was just like, I don't know what the fuck I'm supposed to be doing on camera. I don't know. Y Y this is going to sell and, you know, they were directing me, it's their job to be like, okay, now put your foot in the camera and wiggle your souls and say, now do a Joi countdown. 

And I'm like, okay. But I didn't understand the true psychology of it and be like, okay, they like the souls and this part of the feet for this reason. And this part, like maybe their love map was made this way, or this part of the psychology or this part of what is it called? The, I can never say the word, the humongous bolus, the human brain map, love thing. 

Just stuff like that. 

But yeah, I love fetish work. It's definitely been a really good learning experience for me, especially meaning lots of different fetish producers. Because when I first started, I was just basically doing, working with those two guys, doing handcuffs and wrestling. I do handcuffs and wrestling and feet and inflation and wax and balloons and lots of damsel in distress and and transformation. 

And basically I've personally found for fetish and for Ziva that if it's a silly fetish and if it translates like to, I call it soap, opera acting, and that's like, you're being really dramatic with your body and with your face and your facial expressions. And you're like, no, I can't believe I'm good at that kind of acting like the sillier I can be on camera. 

And it's and it's warranted and welcomed. I feel like the better I do.  

[00:35:19] Matthew Holliday: Okay.  

[00:35:20] Ziva Fey: Yeah. But I can be professional on like, like I've been like, I'd done a movie before. Like I just I'm really, I, I don't know if you guys can even tell from like the podcasts, like my voice and like, I'm very like uppity. I'm very like silly and like, I have a lot of energy. 

[00:35:36] Matthew Holliday: I hope so.  

[00:35:38] Ziva Fey: Yeah. 

[00:35:39] Matthew Holliday: All right. This is a new question that I'm dropping on you. Because earlier today I was just listening to Holly Randall's latest podcast, and she mentioned she was talking with a, I can't remember her name, but she was talking about somebody who is talking that even since the beginning of the pandemic, there's been a change in the adult industry. 

She does adult films and photography, and she was mentioning that they've started to see consent checklists make their way into shoots from the fetish and BDSM scenes. Have you seen any consent checklists?  

[00:36:11] Ziva Fey: Yes. And shout out to fetish pros. They are so professional. They do a fetish consent interview before and after every shoe, which is really, really cool. Really cool. So they interview you, they ask everything they're going to do, they do the checklist and they're like, are you cool with this, this, this, they get it on camera. 

And you're saying, yes. Be like, yeah, I'm cool with this and pull this awesome in that, in that same bucket, what I found is getting something like a checklist or an interview ahead of time. And after is really important. And having the models, especially on like a porn or fetish set when they consent, this is something really awesome. 

And. Important that I heard always make sure that it's an enthusiastic yes. For consent.  

[00:37:02] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:37:03] Ziva Fey: And what that means is that it's like, yeah, I'm down to get a ball gag in my mouth, or I am so down to get tied up and suspended from the ceiling. Like, you'll just do it rather than like, yeah. I I'm, I'm down to get a I'm down to get a ball gag in her mouth, which is D which the implications is actually really different because yes, the model said yes to both times, but the demeanor is so different and you don't want the model a week down the line where you paid her and you put in all this work for the production being like, I wasn't cool with everything that happened or  

[00:37:40] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:37:41] Ziva Fey: yep. 

Or I need you to pull that content. It wasn't cool with me or I wasn't, I didn't like, you know, and so an enthusiastic yes. Is something like for actually everyone's safety, the models and the  

[00:37:53] Matthew Holliday: yeah.  

[00:37:53] Ziva Fey: rather than like, yeah. 

[00:37:54] Matthew Holliday: Well, that's, that's kinda what I wondered about the checklist, because on one hand it protects you you do it beforehand, but it still doesn't protect you from somebody changing their mind. And in fact, could almost give you a false sense because you're like, oh no, she said she was totally okay with being gagged and tied up and in the middle of the shoot, the model's like having a panic attack or something and trust, struggling and trying to get out. 

And the photographer's like, oh wow, she's really into  

[00:38:20] Ziva Fey: Um, that's super valid. So for me, I've been doing this long enough that if I do give an enthusiastic, yes, I'm not going to consent to something that I don't have experience in. And if I am going to consent and something that I don't, that I don't have experience in, it's not going to be on camera at first and it, it, right. 

So I that's very valid and I honestly, I, the only answer I would really have to rebuttal. That comment is hire professionals. Don't hire a girl that you just found on Craigslist or your friend that takes lab classes with you that you think is really pretty, you know, there is a big difference though, between a pretty girl and a model. 

There's a really big difference. And a lot of people sometimes don't see that they don't see that or realize it. 

[00:39:23] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

well, and I think there's a couple of things. I think number one, having experience in the BDSM and the fetish scene before you start doing fetish photography is a big part  

[00:39:31] Ziva Fey: Yeah.  

[00:39:32] Matthew Holliday: the difference between real struggle and fake struggle and having some of those safety protocols in place. 

And second, the, I really like interview before and afterwards where? Yeah, because then you can have like, I changed my mind afterwards. I want you to never release this.  

[00:39:52] Ziva Fey: Exactly. Exactly. I agree, because it can be totally different. You can be like, yeah, I was cool for everything. And then, you know, let's say at the end of let's pretend this was in person instead of a podcast. And I, at the end of the 90 minutes, I was like doing the consent interview and I was like, Hey, I'm not okay with this little scene that was done. 

I didn't like it when you vibed me or when, or  

[00:40:19] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:40:20] Ziva Fey: or even being, even on a different sensor other, not being okay with things happening to you or even being like, can you not post that part where I just fell? Like I fell down. Can you post that part? Like,  

cause that is actually, yeah. Cause that has actually happened to me where I've been like. 

I straight up sell, like crashed biffed it. And I was like, can you please, please not put that part up for sale?  

Like,  

[00:40:48] Matthew Holliday: is Like, that's my kink.  

[00:40:50] Ziva Fey: he was like, okay, I'm not gonna put it up. But then like, now that it's been a few years, we're both like, ah, man, we should've put that part up fell, but yeah. 

[00:41:03] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. No, I'm glad. I'm glad you've seen that. That's I'm have to remember that. I don't do fetish and BDSM work, but if I ever do, I'll have to.  

[00:41:11] Ziva Fey: Yeah, yeah. And it's really cool because I do this so much and I work with so many people that I'm working with a lot of different producers and models gives me that opportunity to see how other people work. Cause I wouldn't have seen that before and after interview process, if I didn't work at work with a specific producer in Vegas. 

So that was, it's just really cool how everyone in this industry has the opportunity to run their business so differently while still achieving around the same goals, 

[00:41:40] Matthew Holliday: All right. Do you think photographers tend to shoot fetishes? They have, or do they tend to shoot fetishes that pay?  

[00:41:48] Ziva Fey: honestly, for them. Okay. You said the word photographers and that makes me be like, eh, so there's like  

[00:41:57] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:41:57] Ziva Fey: between we call them GWC guys with a camera. And there's like a difference between that and a photographer. There's just like a level of professionalism that's there. And like how much social media you have and stuff like that. 

I feel like a lot of guys with cameras, they, they shoot their fetish. They like feet. They want to shoot your feet. They are hiring you for a photo shoot, and then they might even be telling you that, or they're like, I want one or the other. There'll be like, oh, the photo shoot. So you're just putting your feet out there. 

Or they might not even tell you that it's a feat photo shoot. And they're just like, you want to pose with your feet out. And you're like, oh, okay. Like,  

[00:42:34] Matthew Holliday: Like, 

I charged you the wrong  

[00:42:37] Ziva Fey: yeah.  

[00:42:37] Matthew Holliday: I know I'm wearing all my clothes,  

[00:42:39] Ziva Fey: Right, exactly. You're like, I'm doing a lot of yoga poses and I'm like, oh, you're getting some artistic yoga stuff. And I'm like, I'm like, clearly he's getting all the angles of my feet. Or like, like, just like a lot of guys just like shoot naked girls and be around a naked youthful. And yeah, it's for them, it's not even the photo shoot. 

I feel like it's, and I say this endearingly and lovingly, excuse me, I call it the Disneyland experience. And I feel like a lot of people book the time for fetish or photo or whatever is for their Disneyland experience. And what I mean by that is not only are they shooting their fetish that they have or whatever, but they're talking about their fetish, they're around a pretty girl. 

They're spending time just with a youthful girl, just like literally hearing our voice, like just being in their presence. Probably have the opportunity to take us out to lunch before or after and spend even more time and hear our voice. And like, not to be weird, like smell us and smaller perfume and just, you know, so it's kinda, I call it the Disneyland experience because a lot of fetishists. 

There fetish might just be Ziva too. So they want an experience with me and that's  

why they're booking. Yeah. 

[00:44:01] Matthew Holliday: I spoke with melancholic about that she was discussing how she sees even our noon modeling for certain people as a sex worker.  

[00:44:13] Ziva Fey: Oh yeah,  

[00:44:14] Matthew Holliday: But yeah, yeah, for just the reason that you're talking about where they're not, there's not sex occurring, but it's a sexual experience for certain photographers.  

[00:44:24] Ziva Fey: Yeah. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree to that. I. I know that, and I've actually been told this to my face that it it's a not so, like I'm not doing anything sexual. We are might not even be literally coming in any physical contact, the entire 2, 4, 5, 6 hours you're booking me. However, it is a cathartic or sexual experience for the person in that. 

what I said, they are spending time with a youthful younger girl. And especially because I have a lot of life into me, like I've had photographers be like, well, it's really nice because I get some life breathe back into me. Or they're like, I get a fetish experience of like, kind of, it's kind of almost like a girlfriend experience where they, they get something. 

Even if they're not having erection the whole time, they, they do get some they get something out of it where they go home. And then they're like, wow, I got to spend time with, it was, it was in some way. Sexual experience for them or, or even they like to see the naked woman's body and they know that, okay, I'm not going to take raunchy photos doing this and this nap. 

So  

[00:45:36] Matthew Holliday: Well,  

[00:45:37] Ziva Fey: anything, if I can just be in her presence and, oh, I've got pretty pictures of her nude in there, my pictures. And I took them and that's an intimate and special experience for them that they took the pictures of me naked in there, their pictures. And I know that that's a, that's an experience that does happen for people and I'm, you know, okay. 

With  

[00:45:57] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. For a lot of those people, I would imagine a lot of those people are probably older  

[00:46:01] Ziva Fey: Yeah.  

[00:46:02] Matthew Holliday: sixties because I have to imagine that's almost an artifact of an older generation that grew up on play actual Playboys and penthouse. Where  

[00:46:14] Ziva Fey: you know,  

[00:46:14] Matthew Holliday: that in like a magazine where it used to be like a, a very special thing, a very thing to be able to take pictures of dude models.  

[00:46:24] Ziva Fey: Right. Very coveted, very and exactly.  

And like there's  

[00:46:28] Matthew Holliday: opposed to younger people where they grew up with a cell phone that had a camera on it And taking nude selfies and nude pictures of your girlfriend, like that's just something that everybody does  

now.  

[00:46:38] Ziva Fey: access to tumbler. Like literally  

[00:46:40] Matthew Holliday: Hmm.  

[00:46:41] Ziva Fey: in art, my generations face. No, so. There's two parts to answer that question. I definitely agree with that, that it is an older generation and I actually like, sorry, sidebar slash to go along with this slash to plug myself, market my  

[00:46:56] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:46:56] Ziva Fey: fans to the older generations that like, if you enjoy and you like hustler and penthouse and you liked consuming your media that way you should subscribe to my only fans because I do high quality artistic and glamour nudes. 

I don't, that's mostly my bread and butter is really pretty still fit photos. But also to answer your question, it's not only the older generation, these  

[00:47:20] Matthew Holliday: Hm.  

[00:47:21] Ziva Fey: who book the time, kind of actually, I'm going to be really honest with you. They are sometimes even around my age, like early thirties is when it starts and. 

It's it's much far few in between with the younger generations. It starts increasing in the mid forties and then increases again in the fifties. And then probably the most are like, yeah, 60 seventies. But there is this demographic of men who are around my age, who they work. The capitalism has so much of a hold on them that they work so much that they're not able to literally have free time for like romance or, or a girlfriend. 

So the only way that they can consume, you know, girlfriend experience or get arousal is they literally have to kind of do it quickly. And in a two hour experience shooting photos or subscribing to an only fans and watching a video or stuff like that,  

[00:48:22] Matthew Holliday: that's incredibly depressed.  

[00:48:24] Ziva Fey: it's a little depressing. 

[00:48:26] Matthew Holliday: That's a lot of depressing. been going through that with my own job recently.  

[00:48:30] Ziva Fey: Yeah.  

[00:48:30] Matthew Holliday: I'm up for promotion and I'm sitting here being like, do I want to work more? Do I want to be promoted  

[00:48:36] Ziva Fey: Yeah,  

[00:48:37] Matthew Holliday: Be great. conversely, I'd kinda like to work less.  

[00:48:42] Ziva Fey: right, right. And I mean, I actually know quite a few men who are maybe only five years older. They're pretty much in my age demographic. And they're like, no, I'm, I'm purchasing this ball busting session because I need a, I need a sexual cathartic release or whatever, but I literally don't have time. This is my only w this is my first day off in a month. 

And I'm like, oh my God. Like, yeah. So. 

[00:49:10] Matthew Holliday: yeah. What would you say is the most popular fetish you've been asked about.  

[00:49:15] Ziva Fey: Okay. May I ask you to clarify if you mean my whole career or as of lately 

[00:49:22] Matthew Holliday: Oh, it sounds like it's different.  

[00:49:24] Ziva Fey: that it is,  

[00:49:25] Matthew Holliday: well what are the, what are the two answers?  

[00:49:26] Ziva Fey: The two answers are, as of lately, the number two fetishes are feet stuff and wedgie stuff. Number one right now for me is wedgies I need. 

[00:49:37] Matthew Holliday: so feed makes sense. Cause that's the most popular fetish among men.  

[00:49:41] Ziva Fey: Yeah.  

[00:49:41] Matthew Holliday: to know that,  

[00:49:42] Ziva Fey: Yeah. Wedgies sell like hot cakes. I've never, I've never done a fetish that has made me so much immediate deliverable income my entire life. I've never self-produced content that has made me so much of a positive return as to what. 

[00:50:05] Matthew Holliday: All right, hold on a second. I'm trying to figure out what this podcast is. There's a, there's another podcast. I listened to shameless sex. So shameless X podcast, they were discussing. Here we go. Three podcasts ago, used panties from adult stars. discussed they, you could make more money selling used panties skid marks and them. 

And now here you are saying that wedgies are the second, most popular fetish type photo. And I'm like, okay, I'm seeing a pattern here.  

[00:50:40] Ziva Fey: It's actually my number one right now, these are my number  

[00:50:42] Matthew Holliday: number one Wow.  

[00:50:44] Ziva Fey: there, I don't have any like fluid or stuff like that in the panties, but there, there might be some sort of humiliation degradation. I definitely can attest and let you know that wedgies falls somewhere in the bucket or the umbrella of BD. 

[00:51:02] Matthew Holliday: Hmm. Yeah. 

I wouldn't have thought that would be a fetish, but yeah.  

[00:51:06] Ziva Fey: Oh my, I didn't either. So I didn't either. And I actually had this producer that asked me, he, he was like, can I pay you and your sister due to watch a video? I was like, no. And he's like, can I pay you and your sister to a wedgie video? And I was like, no, what the frog does? No. And then he was like, can I pay you and your sister to watch a video? 

And he kept upping the price. by that third message, I was like, you want to pay us? much for 10 minutes? Yeah. I was like, bet, fucking Like he put, he like, and really put down $200 for 10 minutes for each of us, me and my sister, no nudity. I was like, bet, bet  

we did it.  

[00:51:50] Matthew Holliday: the nice thing about wedgies, right? Or I'm sorry. Fetishes,  

[00:51:54] Ziva Fey: It went like semi viral. It literally went semi viral to the point where he wrote on the trailer, who the fuck do you think is a winner? And he made like a poll on Twitter or whatever. And they said that my sister is the winner. And he liked did this really cool thing, which I'm not salty at all. was like, whoever's the winner, whoever they vote is a winner. 

I'm going to give a $50 bonus to she got it. Which I'm like, that's pretty cool that he did that. Like, I, it was usually like a really cool, he, made that he, he bought the wedgies, you know, kind of customers know, off site production, you made it a really cool experience. And then when people were like, oh my God, you did a wedgie video. 

Can I, where can I see more? I was like, well, I don't have no more. I'll let her do it. I don't got no more. I'm gone no more. And so I've made more. So they buy some and. They sell very well for me. I mean, I also think that I'm creative and with all of my wedgie videos, I do come up with some sort of story. 

There is some sort of storyline it's not just like girls wedging each other. Like it's like, um, I'm extorting the girl. Like one of them shout out to large store to work with her a lot. We did a wedgie video that you guys should go by where I was her personal trainer and we just like worked out was like, okay, well we just finished your, your extra deluxe week of trainings. 

That'll be $250. Oh shit. I didn't know that it was going to cost extra for like those extra training and stuff. And I was like, well, of course it costs extra. Like, and so this is the premise of the video and she's like, oh, shower in the morning. And I'm like, well, there's something that I'm kind of into for entertainment that you could do instead. 

Like, I was like the pervy she's like, and I'm like, can I, can I wedge you in a wedgie each other? And she's like, whoa. And I'm like, well, you could be that. Or, or give me the $250. And she was like, oh shit, I'll have $250, man. I was like, we're watching each other. And then, so we went each other and it's really fun. 

And all the fabrics are twisted up our heinies and I hire a videographer every time. Yeah. And. 

[00:54:07] Matthew Holliday: I'm saying, I'm saying the sum of your tweets jazzy Jay's first wedgie competition.  

[00:54:11] Ziva Fey: Yeah, that's a, she's a really nice model in the area. And we did a full day of modeling and she never did any wedgies. And so we, that, that videos are like her, we're like doing a wedgie competition and she's never wedgied before. And so actually with girls who have never wedgied before I try to do like first intro video, where it's like a competition, or like, let's try this out because girls or people that have experience in giving and getting wedgies is much different than people that don't people going to sound silly. 

But because it is in the BDSM umbrella, do have to know how to do it. Like there is actually a way to properly wedgie people and like, yeah, I have to actually train models and there have been quite a few times on set where I'm like, you're not doing it right. Go harder. What'd you like more vigor? Put your back into it really wedging. 

He looked like he wanted to hurt me. Like,  

yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So that's my number one. Current seller. My number one overall seller has for my entirety of my career has just been naked, Ziva, artistic, nudes, just me naked. I have, I have perky titties and small like perky nipples. So  

[00:55:28] Matthew Holliday: Hmm.  

[00:55:28] Ziva Fey: as I started and before I was doing more fetish, people just wanted to see me naked. 

[00:55:35] Matthew Holliday: That's crazy. Who does that? 

[00:55:37] Ziva Fey: Right. 

[00:55:38] Matthew Holliday: All Right. 

We are just about out of time and apparently I should have scheduled like a three hour discussion because we've gone through like half these questions.  

[00:55:47] Ziva Fey: I'm a talker.  

[00:55:48] Matthew Holliday: no, no. That's awesome. In fact, what I'm I wrote down a note here that we should probably talk in like four or five months about coming back on or something  

[00:55:55] Ziva Fey: that would be great. And I could do a part two, or like even finish this one. Not that I would really enjoy that. 

[00:56:01] Matthew Holliday: Well, cause we, we didn't talk about how do you do fetish And 

new work in public? We didn't talk about working with male models. We didn't talk about the social media stuff. We didn't talk about the clothing related. We didn't talk about inflation fetishes,  

[00:56:13] Ziva Fey: yeah. And the clothing is a big thing. Yeah. And the not getting caught in. Public's a big thing. And I do have stories. I have, I have one crazy story actually. 

[00:56:24] Matthew Holliday: Hold on. Let's finish the podcast first and then we can talk. All right. So do you have any projects that you want to plug?  

[00:56:31] Ziva Fey: Yes. I work on a monthly content creating event. So if you are a femme content creator in the Phoenix area, please contact me. My booking email is booking Ziva Fe that's B O O K I N G Z. I V a@gmail.com. You guys can find me at Twitter. At Ziva Fe that's at sign Z. I V a F E Y. You can basically find almost all of my goodies via Twitter. 

I'm on FetLife. I'm on sex Panther. I'm on only fans. I have a free and a paid one. My free one is Eva, Fay X, X, X. You guys can email me any questions. And I am always available for customs, Skypes bookings. I am a full-time content creator and traveling models. So don't be afraid to find my links, contact me and see what hot videos I have. 

Like I have a lot of hot fetish videos since we've been talking about fetish. I have over like 150 videos on my Manny vid store at Ziva Fe available. So I bet you, if you have a fetish and you are listening to this and you're like, she sounds cute. Go look at my channel and I probably have done that fetish. 

And if I haven't, I promise you I'm open for customs.  

[00:57:51] Matthew Holliday: Nice. All right. And with that, we are done. Check us out@thensfwphotographypodcast.com on Twitter. As at NSFW photography, at the NSFW photography podcast. subscribe on your favorite podcast app.