NSFW Pod 030 - Ebony Art Workshop

Transcript is provided via AI by Descript, and contains errors!  It is provided anyways for SEO and accessibility.

[00:00:00] Matthew Holliday: Good day, everyone. And welcome back to the not safe for work photography podcast. There are thousands of models and photographers, creating adult content, using modern platforms and taking control of their own creative lives. Today. We're speaking with Lon from Ebony art workshops in New York city and we're discussing surprise workshops. 

All right. Yeah. 

[00:00:28] EbonyArtWorkshop: Great. You're doing,  

[00:00:31] Matthew Holliday: I am doing pretty good. It's unfortunately, we're recording this on Sunday night and I have to go back to the day job tomorrow, but I'll live. 

[00:00:37] EbonyArtWorkshop: Hey, that's what the day jobs are for, you know, but Felipe, well, weekends to do a photography and real passion. Why not?  

[00:00:45] Matthew Holliday: true that. So let's start off with a quick introduction, honey. Tell me about yourself. 

[00:00:51] EbonyArtWorkshop: Alright. I've been working in entertainment for about 11 years now. I kind of started with photography. In college. I had a college class in community college back when I went and basically that kind of got me started in the photography world. You know, we're timing for the class was to pick up a camera digital camera and had to be a DSLR. So, made that $600 investment. And in my head I'm like, okay, well, let's pay $600 for this. It's the most expensive class I've ever had. I'm going to make sure I didn't even, but at that point in time of college, I was like, so lazy. I don't even buy books. I've just downloaded a PDF. So made that investment and definitely got into just jumping into photography and, and. part about that is my, for my senior project was we actually ended up. Having to do something abstract, some type of abstract art. And I ended up doing my first nude photography for that class. I was 19 years old and I did the, I submitted that was my project. I didn't do nude photography, art, Newton photography for that project. 

And that's kind of was my start. And so all of this and I actually got an, a, my, my A-plus. My, my professor was like super, super duper open-minded and just like loved my bravery. And then it was, you know, funny, quick story about that. Like I had, there was a, there was some extreme Christian guys in my class and they get really, really got on me like, oh, how did you do that? 

And it was just very awkward, but it was great because it's, the teacher had a super duper sweet smile on her face the whole time. I knew I understood, you know, that aspect of photography and understood that that is a really very well-respected part of photography. And just didn't understand, you know, he didn't understand that a 19 Natalia's kid who would just have the balls to just go ahead and do that. 

So that's kind of how  

[00:02:50] Matthew Holliday: So, how did you get into the running workshops business, especially when you said you just came back about a year ago or so? 

[00:02:56] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yes. So I, when I stopped, when I moved, I moved back to New York. I was living in Miami for a while, doing a lot of entertainment stuff in Miami, and I just would always, when I was in my. I would always run off from my day job to just, you know, do some, just like modeling work and stuff like that for, you know, models and stuff like that. 

And I was just like, okay, I'm kind of back have one foot in the door here. When I got back to New York, I was like, okay, let me put another foot in the door. Let me try to go and start building my portfolio. Yeah. Really was looking around for workshops. Couldn't find any ones that cater to the type of woman that I like to shoot. 

Like I said, this is my pastime. I have a duty to have a day job and for an entertainment, so? 

wanted to shoot a particular type of woman. Obviously you know, African-American or Latino woman. And there was no workshops that offered that. Yeah, it was literally, it was a few good workshops. I'll give them the little bit of a heads up here. 

You know, new York's photo workshop, peak photo workshop. There's a Manhattan photo workshop, New York are they, I think, at this and then say in New York, so. There was a few, a lot of workshops, but they weren't really booking or had any African-American women there. And I just seen that as okay. 

You know, I don't think it's a problem. I just think sometimes it's for a certain photographers, especially in. It's kind of hard for them to approach a certain woman, especially the New York model and a lot of the New York models do mainly video work or music, video work or melodic like extreme, bland work. 

So they're not really into the art world. I seen that as kind of a, as you know, I'm going to have a business major. That's what I mainly studied in college. So I seen that as a integral. Create and make some money at the same time, because it's like, okay, this is a niche. You know, I seen as a niche market that needed something to help. 

I know that it was, I was like, okay, if I feel like this and I can't find any place to build my portfolio, let me make my own way. And I kind of studied what the other photographers are doing and kind of just got into it, doing it.  

[00:05:09] Matthew Holliday: interesting. You mentioned that, especially with the way that COVID happened. I feel like a lot of former meetup groups have shut. So, I, I know looking in this area, I've got one that's really local to me, but I'm looking over their meetup page right now and they don't have anything scheduled in the near future. 

And I know there's that other one that we were talking beforehand the state's Bernard group up in Southern Pennsylvania, but that's like three or four hours away. I was just looking and he's actually, sometimes he uses Scott church's studio, which is in Pennsylvania, but sometimes he uses a studio in Elkton, Maryland. 

So it's all around like that Maryland Pennsylvania line.  

[00:05:44] EbonyArtWorkshop: absolutely. Yeah. 

So it, you know, and That's that's the good thing about it is that it's expanding. You know, he's, he's, he's really making really good strides. So shout out to him. Then he know he Brooks books versus so, set a model. So that's pretty cool too, 

[00:05:58] Matthew Holliday: That's interesting. Yeah. You know what? I'm actually seeing that the mega glam coming up in March 19th, I've been thinking about that. I gotta talk to my wife and see if I have permission to go. 

[00:06:07] EbonyArtWorkshop: pretty far trip, but I think it would be cool because w why I feel like it will be cool. Is it, it's all of us that do the same thing in one area that would be built. It's kind of like going to a convention. That's how I see it. So,  

[00:06:19] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's looking like what 46 photographers signed up right now? Or is it 46 models? There's 46 attendees. So that's  

[00:06:28] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. 46 to 10. Yeah. And I think, I think he accidentally kicked me out the group. He thought I was lurking side. I've got to go ahead and put my deposit in. Sorry man. I got you. I wasn't alerting.  

[00:06:39] Matthew Holliday: That's funny. All right. So just, you mentioned, remember we talked to first thing about Scott Church studio, and I noticed that the two events you had posted, one of which happened previously, just, just finished the other day. And the one you've got coming up on the 19th, there are two different vendors. Do you, do you have like a set of venues you work with commonly or do you just kind of bounce around the city and pick up venues wherever they have time? 

[00:07:03] EbonyArtWorkshop: So the great thing about what I was doing is that I was, I've seen that mainly a lot of these photography works, so we have a great, great super set of studios, shout out to them F studios and the. We have a great, they have two locations and they also have locations in Chicago and LA, and I would say FD studio has been a godsend just period for anybody looking to do type of book studios in New York. 

Because like you said studios and venues are all over the place, right? So realistically here in New York, there's tons of them, but they really don't promo like that. They like, it's kind of hard to find them. So realistically. When you find a studio in a nice studio and then you, they have a track is super, super duper attractive rates. 

Like I'm talking about, like, you can get a four hour studio for like almost, almost 130 bucks. Like it really, really, really cost cost-effective studios. They pretty much save in New York scene when it comes to the studios, because we, we, we were always starving the figure out locations, especially now in the cold, like it's freezing here. 

So 18 degrees. So, you know, you can't shoot outside, you can't do anything. I, you know, I'm used to being in Miami, so it was just like, now I gotta find a place I can shoot. And that's when. Found FD. And like I said, their rates were super, super friendly. They allow workshops, they were cool workshops. So I kind of keep F studios as the home right now. 

And I do, do you know what I do do the live events. I do go to other studios. But right now Ft studios has been our bread and butter and where we've been wanting to do the event.  

[00:08:38] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And they actually looked like they've got, they've got what? Like 25 different studios across three locations. That's ridiculous. 

[00:08:45] EbonyArtWorkshop: It's amazing. And it's like, and that's the good thing about it. Like even Brooklyn, they just build the Brooklyn one. Recently they just opened, I think what it's. Maybe four or five rooms. Beautiful, huge, like, huge window rooms, like all full day light rooms. They're probably going to deck it out soon with some type of you know, you know, as, how would you say it? 

Decorations and stuff like that. But that's the cool thing about it. If you look at their rooms, they have different themes for every every single room at the LIC location. At the story, a location there, I literally just came like I said, we had a, one of the other day and we just came from there and they were, I like how they work because they had the boxes in there ready to start building themes in the story, your location. 

So it's like, they're very, very active, very, they're not just a studio that just has a space and keeps just keep, you know, keeps it there and just says, okay, Hey, we're going to rent it out. Whatever. It's a studio that is looking to build with creators. Like that's really why I love it. Yeah. And realistically what they end up doing is they let you book in advance and you don't have to put your deposit down. 

You don't have to actually pay for your deposit about, till about 48. I don't know if they want me to say that. Sorry. I'm thinking. That's the great thing about it. It's super, super cool about deposits. And I think that's the most event. Like you don't have to pay up front, you can wait. So for me, for someone that has a business in the workshop, I can allow my customers to pay and then I can reserve the work. 

You know, the actual studio costs right then and there, you know,  

[00:10:17] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, that makes sense. Cause if you pay ahead of time and then for some reason you pick a bad date or just the things fall apart, you're still on the hook to pay for it. Even if nobody signs up, that would be, yeah. 

[00:10:27] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. And that's the great thing about it that really cool about cancellations moving things around. No cancellation fee. Great, great, great studio.  

[00:10:36] Matthew Holliday: Huh, so interesting. All right. So when you, when you bring it in for your concept ideas for the workshop, do they, are you usually using their existing studios or do you bring in your own set of props and background and things like that? 

[00:10:50] EbonyArtWorkshop: for like a Valentine's event. I I knew, okay. They, you know, they don't have a bed full of roses. So I was like, okay, you know what, let me build, you know, a bell bed full of roses. That's what we did for our Valentine's event last week. I made sure that, you know, I had a ton of roses that I brought and everything like that. 

But the great thing about it is that out of a band coming up on the 19th, they have a whole wall of rows. So, and it's like a whole floral room with roses and then they have a, has a little bit of a grunge, beautiful kind of art that go look it's, it's a beautiful room, a beautiful setup. If you look at some of the rooms, actually I have like a really cool x-ray and shit. See, you know, it's really, really dope. Remodels love shooting there. And that's the value that we kind of set also with some of our events, like we'll have one, this regular standard event, kind of where we set out, take it a little bit lower and then we two, we then then we'll have a second event. Every month at a super duper expensive studio that the studio is a little bit more expensive than that. 

You know, that 1 34, I said, but it's more attractive because it has that theme and it has it's a lot, you know, the space is beautiful. That has that. The, what an otherwise, sorry, but that the how would you say daytime, daytime lighting, you know, really, really good daytime. It actually kind of warm the room. 

It actually looks kind of warm and everything like that for photos. So we actually ended up booking at least that a premium event. Every month we do charge a little bit of a more higher ticket price for that event, but it's always about that dope location. So I would say the good thing about FTE is that you could bring your own stuff and you can get, you know, you can actually have, they have stuff set up for creators to create certain dope places.  

[00:12:41] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. Yeah, I've never, I've never used a studio. Cause most of the time, as a, as an amateur photographer, by the time I paid the model, I usually don't have, you know, an extra, like you said, an extra, a couple of hundred dollars to rent a studio. 

[00:12:54] EbonyArtWorkshop: And see Barry go out enough. You will allow me to segue real quick. That's why I think workshops are needed, especially in an F w space. It's kinda like this perilous array. You have your list of Reiki, do your deposit, then boom. And you have to get your venue. Either have to get a studio or you can do a room mostly by door, or, you know, if you're doing a door suit or nude shoot, most likely not something to 10. 

You're going to book a hotel room and New York city, especially on a weekend, let's get into $300 for your room. $250 for a year room. You have 

[00:13:33] Matthew Holliday: you're on a crappy, like holiday on or something. And he wants to take pictures there. 

[00:13:37] EbonyArtWorkshop: Absolutely exactly. You wouldn't want to live a nice room and things like that, of that nature. Right? So, boom, that's two 50, but then you still have a DePaul hotel deposit on top of that. Don't forget your incidentals. So then you're you, you, you're at almost about 600 to $650 right there. So. Boom, you should've listened to hours then guess what? 

You have a hotel room for the rest of them that you probably won't end up even using. Sometimes I've seen some photographers book, a room and ended up actually just leaving the room. So that's a hotel room that you paid for for the night for no reason. Cost-effective wise. And this is why I always tell to my, my cousin, your, your w our ticket, our highest expend most expensive ticket is 1 75. 

We're still giving, you know, you're still able to book and shoot with this model and we do offer one-on-ones or Damato. So you can still shoot with these models for let's say, a quarter of what you would probably spend, trying to book them by yourself.  

[00:14:35] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, no, that makes sense. All right. So speaking of, kind of the pricing structure, I see you limit the participants to eight. How did you settle it, that number? Did you, did you try workshops with four try workshops with 10. 

[00:14:50] EbonyArtWorkshop: We allow between eight, sometimes 10, depending on the room. 10 was our highest. I think the, most of the biggest attendance we've had was about 11 people. Okay. And when we had that 11 people. Workshop people not to say fighting, but one of the photographers called that I was fighting for the model's face  

[00:15:13] Matthew Holliday: Yeah.  

[00:15:14] EbonyArtWorkshop: and he got upset and walked out. I'm huge on customer service. I was in sales for a very long time. I'm huge on customer service. I don't like unhappy customers and you know, it reminded me for me, it felt like when I used to work in sales and the customer literally came back to me or gave me a phone call with a bad review or a bad feeling about what the product they got sold. 

So what I did, I changed the structure of things. I made sure to limit the amount of photographers that come, you know, and just put the ticket price up a little bit. Just allow photographers to do what's called. We like to call them now turnstile shooting where people, you, you know, one, the model is told to look at one photographer at a time, you know, pretty much we like at the last event, I had one about one about helpers. 

He was timing the ma the photographer is basically a minute in 20 seconds and within 30 seconds each round, but you guys get to go the different rounds. So let's say. We're at one station and you're shooting a model, boom, somebody shoots you know, maybe three or four or five poses. Boom. They take another, somebody else goes then boom, three to four or five posers. 

Somebody else goes, they can do that. Maybe three or four or five times between the photographer, but at least allows each photographer to get exactly what they want with the model and kind of go from there from that. So that's how we kind of eliminated, eliminated that part. Where people said felt like they were fighting for a model's face with the paparazzi style. 

We eliminated that. So that was the great thing about having eight people is that these eight people understand what they've come, came to get and understand that they want to collaborate and get what they want out of the workshop. So I felt like that was a magic number right there.  

[00:17:02] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And that makes sense too, because an awful lot of time, especially with amateur photographers have spent champion and adjusting the lighting and moving it around because they don't know exactly what they want. Putting it together and there's just a lot of living. Let's move it up a stop. Let's move it down and stop. 

Let's move it back a little bit. Let's move it forward a little bit.  

[00:17:19] EbonyArtWorkshop: Of course,  

[00:17:20] Matthew Holliday: And if you've got that lighting set up perfectly to start with. 

[00:17:25] EbonyArtWorkshop: and that's the good thing. Okay. So that's how we kind of do lighting. We have daily. Areas and we have flash areas and I'm providing pretty much one of the only workshops that allow. Photographers, you know, bringing news, newsflash, and it's just, Hey guys, play nice. That's just the simplest thing about it. 

They could bring their own flash and share the flash and we aren't children. We shouldn't be fighting over flashes. So I know workshops say, hell no flashes because nobody, you know, it's, it's, it's Papa, not really paparazzi style, but it's a lot to have people pass around triggers and everything like that at our shop, we do pretty much good, fine with. 

that because we allow them to. 

Pretty much sit in a, share the actual trigger and kind of fluctuate and go through with the station so that, you know, it always works out.  

[00:18:15] Matthew Holliday: So how many workshops a month do you run? You've I saw there were at least two on your schedule. And you mentioned that there are, you try to run like a big one each month and there's other ones. 

[00:18:24] EbonyArtWorkshop: So we try to do at least two to three a month. We may add a date for them. Or we're going to add one for the beginning of March. But definitely going to probably do three in March for sure. You know? Cause it's going to start, you know, hopefully starting to get less cold. So definitely two to three months, you know, three being the max. 

I only because I like to give a lot of photographers time, the promo. No meta promo and obviously set the schedules. And one of our people shout out to Neville BU photography. He, he definitely had, he fluctuates weekends. He can only come certain weekends. I want to always make sure he can, he's able to be there. 

He actually ends up doing a lot of our BTS photography and our video and stuff like that.  

[00:19:13] Matthew Holliday: It's interesting. I think I asked him about this later, but we're going to go ahead and skip to it. Do you get a lot of, I assume you, that means you get a lot of repeat photographers rather than kinda go ahead. 

[00:19:22] EbonyArtWorkshop: So, yeah. Yeah, actually we do, you know, that's one good thing about this last workshop was the feeling I actually was sitting down with after it was one of one about a workshop that we're helping build in the south and I was letting them know, like, listen, it's, it's an amazing feeling to see these guys three, four or five times. 

You know, that's I, that's what I like. I think I'm liking, starting to like most, this is the, that was the ninth, I think foot workshop we did on the S six and. It just felt good that a lot of these guys have been back five or six times. You know, a lot of these guys have been back almost every, almost every other time or at least three or four or five times. 

You know, some are named some guys like Todd Todd to MTA homes on Instagram you know, you got Frank he's our resident. One of our, one of our guys is 83 years old. Frank comes, he gets his chair and he shoots and he was one of the first people to ever come to in that. You know, workshop. I believe that Brent, I'm going to get his actual real Instagram in a second. 

But Frank he's one of our loyal members. He comes, he's all, he's missed the first, the first one in the year, the first two. But he said that he's, he's definitely registered for the next one. So it's. Have a building the community. I think that's really where, what we were set up setting out to do. And that's why I feel like it's working and that's why it's beneficial for me to continue to do it. 

And what kept me doing it is that it's a community for people that want to take pictures, You know, and celebrate with, you know, melanated model. 

[00:20:58] Matthew Holliday: You know, and you're not wrong either. Yeah. If you're hiring a model yourself, it sounds like you could do two workshops for the price of what it would cost you to hack. You could probably do three in the same price. It would cost you to hire a model yourself and rent out space yourself.  

[00:21:12] EbonyArtWorkshop: Absolutely. And that's the benefit of, you know, coming to these workshops is, you know, because I know I always get people photographers that, you know, without a DM or promo to, or talk to on, on Instagram and, or, you know, other platforms. And they always say, oh, I liked that one-on-one feeling I liked, I don't like the group shoots. 

I want to do one-on-one model and everything like that. And not. That's totally fine. And I understand that completely, especially photographers will have their own studios are photographers that have in-home studios and things of that nature. That's, you know, fine for them and it, and it's, but we're creating a space for people that one don't have a home studio or. Or want to CA have a home studio and want to meet and kind of get in contact with models and network models, because that's one of the hardest parts also within I think our world is the awkwardness, the awkwardness, the trust, the working off references, working off of. Hey, this person's not a creep or weird, you know, it's, we're creating an environment where people can meet, work and leave and all our models leave happy, you know, they're live, leave you know, obviously get paid and everything like that. 

So they, everybody is happy at the end. I think that's the best part about the whole thing is that everybody enjoyed this. We've had models write long paragraphs and tell me how much they love empowering themselves, you know, with the workshop and stuff like that. So it feels good to be on this end of you know, of the, you know, the spectrum with this stuff. 

And realistically I feel as if a model also, not even just photographers, photographers, Hey, we're just saving money. But a model also would rather go into an environment with. A group of people work and we're a network of photographers, feel comfortable, meeting a photographer, knowing who he is in a group setting where, you know, they're obviously held accountable for their actions and. 

Then saying, okay, you know what? He's cool. He's not, you know, he's not, you know, like what they like to say is, but I don't like using that word much, but you know, that's what some girls will say about certain photographers. Oh, he's not a creep. He's not weird. He's cool. I can actually sit and work with him on by myself. 

And we've had a lot of models booked directly with photographers directly after our shoots. I would say about. Maybe Yeah. 

About 60, 70, 80% of our models that I've worked at the workshop have booked with photographers afterward. And so that's a space where they can meet and get an understanding of each other before they go ahead and go broke privately. 

So.  

[00:23:56] Matthew Holliday: That's a good point. It's definitely a common discussion around models and how to like vet new photographers that they haven't worked with before and things like that. So it sounds like this sounds like a much safer venue as well. 

[00:24:09] EbonyArtWorkshop: Absolutely. Yeah. It's you know, obviously Ft studios, big publicly known place, a lot of models. What reason? Another reason why I chose there is because a lot of models, a lot of photographers in New York have shot there. They know the environment, they know where they're going. You know, they're not anywhere sketching. 

Or anywhere weird, you know, it's it's, it's, you know, when they leave and go home, you know, they go right to the train. I walked him through the train. Sometimes we'll get them on Uber or something like that. It's just an environment where everything is, is transparent and right there in front of them, instead of, you know, it being. 

Having, you know, having to jump through hoops and that's what we're photographers too. Like they, you know, having to give models of posits and stuff like that, and they might run off for them money or you know, having to kind of translate, Hey, I'm a cool guy. Let's shoot. I just want to create beautiful pictures with you. 

How do we show. You know, that's sometimes very hard for people to you know, get across on Instagram or via DM or via email or via a phone call. Sometimes, you know, beam in person allows for people to get that understanding across to each other.  

[00:25:18] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. And I imagine that a group of photographers like this, or a group of people forces sketchy photographers to behave a little better. I assume that's what you've seen in the past. Have you had any Benson's is a bad, bad. 

[00:25:30] EbonyArtWorkshop: So no, and that's, I didn't expect that. I would say a photographer. Might've said something a little, like a little, a little, a little out there that everybody kind of laughed it off, but it's that environment where. like, if you sit, if even if you're a little bit rude or not really rude, I wouldn't call it rude, but a little bit, you know, fresh let's call it that if a ma if a photographer got a little fresh, like, you know, it, you know, everybody kind of laughs it off and awkwardly moves on, you know, And they know not to do it again. 

So it's a good, that's a good environment to take, you know, kind of keeps everybody in line and held accountable for what they're doing is allowing them to understand like, Hey, this is not a space for that. This is literally our role and that's what we're doing. And I even, I've had a weird situation in the beginning of the year where I had a guy randomly signed up maybe an hour before the event even started Cain. 

And, you know, wasn't dressed probably was dressed very weird, you know, you know, not to say I, as a photographer, supposed to dress a certain way, but just didn't look like someone, you know? So it looked like someone that just found it on Instagram and didn't have a camera. Didn't have any gear. Tried to get in and, you know, I didn't let him in, I let her had to let them know, Hey, listen, I'm gonna give you a refund. 

He was just like you know, trying to kind of look for his work cause I've, I kinda try to vet everybody that comes to the workshop. You know, Hey, it's proof. This is a place for professional photographers. Even amateur photographers, you know, let's try to, even if you're just getting started. So you have some type of work. 

You've done this before. Not someone I didn't even see a foot. All I seen was a phone in the guy's hand, so I didn't let him in. So I would say that's the closest, I got to something weird going down at the, at the workshop.  

[00:27:18] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, that's actually an interesting point. I mean, there's been all these, I mean, if you, you can't hardly throw a stick on YouTube without seeing something like, you know, can you tell this photos from a camera versus a phone?  

[00:27:31] EbonyArtWorkshop: Absolutely.  

[00:27:32] Matthew Holliday: So there's a lot of people that are using phones to do, but, but there's, there's a certain signaling power and having like a mirrorless or a DSLR camera. 

[00:27:40] EbonyArtWorkshop: absolutely. And that's the one thing is like, you know, pay, if you want to book the model to go and, you know, and shoot on your iPhone and central park. Hey, that's totally fine. But here we're kind of.  

[00:27:51] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:27:52] EbonyArtWorkshop: you know, restricting everything to people that are, you know, at least on a certain level of professionality with, with, you know, with that.  

[00:28:01] Matthew Holliday: So looking at your next event coming up on February 19th, two, it should be four days after this podcast drops. I see that I mentioned is that you're doing different dynamic stations. What's the dynamic station for the purposes of a workshop. 

[00:28:13] EbonyArtWorkshop: Okay. So realistically, We're going to be doing the flower wall. So there's going to be you know, beautiful good lighting and, and, and like different certain setup on that flower on the flowers and and FD a pretty big, it kind of spans the whole room. So we're going to have two separate stations on that flower wall. 

So that one will be like a beautiful nice green couch with the floral in the background, that kind of everything. And then there will be, if you go to Ft studios. Now, now I know you probably looking at things. If you, if you look@ftestudios.com and you go to a studio seven in Historia, that'll be, you know, just kind of give you an idea of what I'm talking about. And also there's, we'll probably have them standing standing with led station so that people can shoot with LEDs. A lot of our new age photographer, contemporary photographers, like to use LEDs besides flash. So have having that set up. And then we'll have a setup, boom, for lighting for daytime lighting. 

So when I cook, when we say dynamic stations, is that mainly talking about the lighting being dynamic is you can use flash, you can use daylight or this, the stations where you can. Yeah. 

you can simply like I said, you led, it's really dynamic where we're and also we do rotate our lights a little bit too. 

I'm at a workshop, so we'll make sure that, okay. Let's say the guys want to shoot and I'm really cool with. The guy saying, okay, you know what, we want to do this now. All right. Let's get up. Come on. Let's pick up the pills. Let's, let's move some lighting around like, that's one cool thing that I really like about us is that we're all cool. 

You know, they cool enough to ask me, Hey, Lunken can we move this? And then can we do this? And I cannot put my thing here or can I bring a personal flash and shoot real quick with this model? Yeah. 

As long as it's your turn, and if you have your one-on-one with The model, you can go ahead and do everything right. 

Like that. So that's pretty much how we set up the dynamic things. 

[00:30:10] Matthew Holliday: The models have different outfits for each station or. I know that you mentioned some of them do nude and some of them do lingerie and implied. Yeah.  

[00:30:20] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. 

So realistically I have them kind of, how would you say. I kind of say like, like Seinfeld back in the day where we had the, during the science fair, where you're here, you're here and then rotate, rotate. So realistically, how that works is a model we'll be here doing laundry, and then the model will be here doing implied, and then I'll have them switch outfits. 

One will be there doing laundry, one only doing implied or new, and then kind of, circle out, circling around stations, you know, maybe every 20, 30 minutes. And SWAT switching out outfits and stuff like that. And then the great part about it is for one-on-ones ours, have the models pack at least two or three extra, you know, forms of you know, outfits have them, you know, basically be able to model it directly for it to be chosen by the actual photographer. 

So a photographer, if they book a one-on-one shoot they can choose whatever outfit they, they want the model to work.  

[00:31:23] Matthew Holliday: All right. Do the photographers ever bring models or bring outfits for the models? 

[00:31:30] EbonyArtWorkshop: We've had one photographer bring Ashley. He, you know, he brought a few outfits that he didn't want to try to have a model trial for the one-on-one. You know, I, I'm going to try to start doing that maybe for patron. I remember. Yeah. 

bring your own Andre, if you want to have, you know, I'll list the the model sizes. 

And if you booked your one-on-one, then you can have the model where that I think that'll be something that I'm probably going to start bringing in, you know, just the personalized thing, you know, that's what I've been trying to do with the patriotic community is you know, to start personalized and things and having people like, Hey, listen, you know, you do pay a little bit of premium to help, you know, help the work shot out and. 

Actually help, you know, be able to get some type of perks when you do come to workshops.  

[00:32:15] Matthew Holliday: What gear to photographers normally. 

[00:32:18] EbonyArtWorkshop: Like I said, I'm probably one of the only workshops allow people to bring their own personal flashes. You have gods, they'll bring a whole seat, stand whole seats, then their home flashed system and everything like that. I mean, guys really take it overboard. I like that though, because. They don't they share that's the beautiful about it. 

I got, I, I was so amazed to see people playing nice to each other, letting each other use different flashes. I actually try to have a photographer of the month, every month. So a photographer the month was a be conscious 90, his his, his Instagram handle. And it's Brendan. He, he pretty much. Was this a superstar today, like athletic, everybody uses flashes, showing everybody kind of how he does his lighting. 

He does some of the best photos we've gotten taken out our workshop. So pretty much, you know, he has, he had a whole flash system there and let people use it, you know, so anything, you know, we, we kinda very, very open to people because I understand that lighting is everything. So to get the best photos and. 

Product, I'm going to allow you to bring your own lighting and just use it sparingly and use it that out, you know, with the discretion of letting the whole, you know, the whole workshop build with each other and help out. So I think that's one of the unique things we have going on.  

[00:33:37] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, that's a, some really cool. Is there anything photographers frequently? Don't bring that they should. I know there was that one guy who didn't even bring a camera, but. 

[00:33:45] EbonyArtWorkshop: So I wouldn't, you know, I always saw photographers start up in the car too, kind of being cards like that. That's I think that's dying a lot. Everybody's doing the Instagram thing. Cause sometimes I have a sign in sheet. And sometimes I'm I think I forgot. When I don't have that sign in sheet and there's new guys, I don't get their numbers at then. 

I like the texts. Like I texted guys personally, when they submit photos to me personally, would be a text and everything like that. I'm really cool with my phone number. I'm being. You know, bring a card like a card really helps, you know, all the guys that have the cards, I collect them. I have them here and I can know the number. 

I know how to contact them. I get their Instagram. Sometimes I only even get some guy's Instagrams until they tag me. Or sometimes, sometime they have Instagrams that are. No separate from, you know, from their work. So it's kind of like really allow bringing something physical that I can collect and have. 

So I think that'll be something that, that people should stop reading.  

[00:34:43] Matthew Holliday: That's a good point too, especially because after meeting, you know, two new models and seven other photographers and you there, they're not gonna remember  

[00:34:51] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah,  

[00:34:51] Matthew Holliday: anybody's anything. 

[00:34:53] EbonyArtWorkshop: yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.  

[00:34:55] Matthew Holliday: Speaking of you mentioned the networking aspect. So you said a lot of networking happens here. A lot of photographers hire the model afterwards. Anything else to say on the networking, but. 

[00:35:05] EbonyArtWorkshop: That's like I said before, it breaks the ice between models and photographers, realistically, that I feel like that's one of the biggest issues. That we have in this industry is no one knows how to talk to each other. No one knows how to communicate. And that's just the world period. I think the world is becoming so everybody's becoming so you know, in their own world that, you know, now that this gives people the opportunity to get out the house, talk to other people, especially now with, you know, with the COVID thing happening and everyday. 

Get out the house, talk to people, talk to miles, talk to people talk to other photographers, people that love doing what you do, you know, and not feeling. Cause you know, I'll be honest with you. One thing that I had to get over, especially with starting the workshop and you know, being, knowing my past and entertainment. 

The, the stigma of, you know, and, you know, ended the NFL not safe for work area. So to see other guys that are doctors, the CF guys that are, you know, have nine to five, regular nine to five is a successful nine to five, but like to do this on the side to have God bring his wife and his wife is literally, they're helping Sebastian. 

That was one of our cool guys, you know, people that work with. One of our coolest members. Some is super, super dope photos. We actually got the most published photos. I think 10 photos now published. And then I had him speak to everybody today. Like, Hey Sebastian, tell everybody why they should submit photos. 

And you know, what's the benefit of it. 

[00:36:40] Matthew Holliday: So you were talking about the photographs and talking about submitting the photographs and publishing the photographs. And so what happens to the photographs from the shoot? Are they, are they kind of like a regular one-on-one shoot where the photographer just. I never with them or. 

[00:36:54] EbonyArtWorkshop: Right now, the format I have it is is. Pretty much photographers pay to come to the event. And this was kind of something that we kind of, it was a little weird in the beginning because models would be like, oh, well I want one, all my photos. Can you guys send me everything? They have to understand that, Hey, these guys was working guys, a lot of people, you know, and you know, they're paying for a service. 

So, you know, photographers are coming and they're paying their money. So it's, it's the kind of the opposite when the model pays a photographer. So really we've have pretty much. 50% of the community, 75%, I'm trying to get it up to 75%, but 50% of the community submits their photos. They're actively posting on Instagram. 

That's the best part everybody's posting on Instagram. Everybody's submitting their photos to be featured on our page to be featured on Patrion. I, the reason why I feature on the patron on I, you know, and that was kind of an uncomfortable thing for me in the beginning, because I felt like, okay, well, It's a photographer going to be cool with me, posting their stuff on Patrion, on being that we get pledges and that, but that's money for us. 

But you know, I want people to have a space. That's my, my door one. We'll talk about that with the Patrion, but. People to see what's created at the workshop. I don't want, especially in NSM FW stuff is kind of like we can't post that on Instagram. I want a space where that can be celebrated as well, but also be behind the paywall. 

So that models feel a little bit more comfortable that it's just not out there for the public to view from the photographer. Submit, submit certain. Not, not safe for work stuff to my you know, to have my email and everything like that. And then we put, we put place that on the Patrion, we kind of circulate that within that community. 

So it's kind of safer for the model. So they're not just stuck. Not everybody doesn't have their photos. A lot of photographers do submit the photos for, for publishing. And like I said before with Sebastian had 10 photos and they use Kayvon. A lot of different platforms to get them published and featured. 

So  

[00:39:06] Matthew Holliday: You mentioned that the models were asking about the, so the models, do they get copies of those or  

[00:39:11] EbonyArtWorkshop: yes, of course. So models do get pictures. A lot of the photographers do seven, the models, pictures dispose, they post what they like. And that's the one thing I will say about the models. They will post only what they like. I kind of encourage them to grab emails and everything like that and get, you know, get everybody's information so that they can send photos back and forth. 

So I'll say majority of models, they do post their photos. That's actually the great part about the models is that they understand a lot of them understand some so, social media like Alyssa, she has a really good following famous dude. So she's a good, big model that has a good following. And really, really big on engagement. 

They really post and make sure that, you know, Hey, they tag us and they're really cool with that. They really make sure they celebrate the photographer along with us. We make sure we celebrate the photographers too. So that's kind of like the biggest thing. 

[00:40:07] Matthew Holliday: What licensed and photographers and models received for the use of the images? Is it just basically your standard? Our risk and do anything with it. The models can share it. Or do you guys do anything specific? 

[00:40:17] EbonyArtWorkshop: So, this is where I'm at with that. I mean, this was something that at the beginning was kind of a executive decision I had to make where in the beginning models were very, very. Obviously, when I say for work pictures, where did they go? Where, what rights do they have with it? A lot of models don't want to be on an aside. 

I won't name it. But pretty much the big side, everybody's using a monetized content now for models and one photographer shooting putting their stuff on there and anything like that. So I kinda, you know, put that out there that yes, patron. Okay. Because it is a place for creatives. It isn't a place that sexualized it's place that is for creative and art. other site is, you know, for, you know, places. So that's kind of like the only place we kind of ask people, don't do not post things on. Other than that, we basically allow, you know, photographers to use it for the websites, things of that nature. So we do have a model release that kind of just allows, shows exactly where the photos. 

But they do still get a general model release also that kind of just lets the models 

you know, photos, BBQs and publishes public suffers that publishing and, and different places. So realistically we do, like I said, we just ask Kylie that it's not posted on that other site, but other than that, the photographers get a pretty much broad license on where they can use the photos.  

[00:41:43] Matthew Holliday: Interesting. What if they put it on there, like bind a paywall on their own site, 

[00:41:47] EbonyArtWorkshop: That's fine. Like I said, as long as you know,  

[00:41:50] Matthew Holliday: long as it's not on LF. 

[00:41:51] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. As long as it's not on know web, we can call it that. Yeah. LF is kinda like a, just, no, no, I will ask, you know, if they're promoting it or somebody comes and take, takes 20 photos and says, Hey, come, you know, we're just saying, come see this model in real life. 

That's something I will kind of kindly ask to take down or talk to the photographer about having added happened amazingly. You know, most of our photographers are leaning towards the art side. A lot of the photographers they are. Mainly doing the most place that they will do is, like I said, Patrion, and you know, the models, Hey, they, they use it for the OLF, iconic, give them free range over that, you know, just to keep it the power in their hands, you know? But also you have the power and the monitor, you know, give also photographers a way to monetize and use their photos as well. So kind of be an equal balance, but obviously OSF is kind of more for models than anything. So kind of kept it, you know, like that really, but, you know, that's really, like I said, this is still an ongoing conversation on that. 

You know, that's something where I feel as if I, you know, I've, you know, just as a person, I feel more comfortable with photographers using Patrion and using more creative places and models. Hey, if they do want to use it there, tag your photographer, try to bring some type of money their way. Cause they did take the photo. 

You know, that's mainly what I try to enforce.  

[00:43:16] Matthew Holliday: What types of photographers usually attend a, your sheets? Is that normally a lot of amateurs? Is it a mix of pro and amateur? 

[00:43:24] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. Mixture of prone. amateur? 

We have some guys that'll have 20 years. Like I said, like we have an 83 year old. Frank's been probably shooting since we were, before we even born. You know, you have people that are you know, just in curious about it, like a OCR would have the first brand new photographer. Like this is the first time he took a picture of a woman ever stupid kid photography. He He's, you know, he was somebody that was brand new, super, super new. He was pretty cool. 

So we'll have a mixture of know pro pro pros and amateurs, and there, you know, and I like to say, let the amateurs know, listen to these guys, listen to the pros because they're going to teach you how to operate and create great quality photos within this community and kind of set things, you know, set yourself up for Getting things, you know, to be classic because that's one, another reason why I started to workshop as well as, because I feel like the representation for African-American and Latino models in the art world, isn't there and it's mainly glam and glamour stuff that are there. 

That's being glamorized and, you know, the music video stuff to visually look and stuff I CA you know, and also the 

how would you say. I call it over airbrush stuff and you know, it, it's kinda like a thing there and it's kinda like, that's not, you know, we can create art also. We you know, we can create art with those type of models. 

We can create, you know, art with Latino models and stuff like that. They're just not exposed to that type of photographer. Those types of photographers that are going to create beautiful more, you know, more artistic value per portraits than anything. They're not, they don't have that. No, those photographers don't necessarily contact them or don't have a chance to suit them because it's that weird stigma between those environments, which that's what we're trying to break  

[00:45:11] Matthew Holliday: All right. What types of models usually? 

[00:45:14] EbonyArtWorkshop: right now. I like to keep a cool mixture. Sometimes. Like I said, we have a mixture of models that are just getting into. No art modeling some models that are just getting kind of in the actual you know, the, I call it, I just like, sorry if I keep calling it this, but they glam airbrush from world that are looking to do a little bit more artistic stuff. We have models that are doing this. Didn't meet music videos before, and now they're looking to get into, you know, other stuff. So we have, we have a broad spectrum. I always try to book abroad special, no models like Alyssa she's more or less the art in the morning, the art world. Trying to branch her in some, you know, working more with people in the art world a little bit safely and things of that nature. 

So it's a real big mix of models.  

[00:46:01] Matthew Holliday: Do you usually get many new models, like models that are trying to break into this type of modeling or is it typically a very experienced model? 

[00:46:09] EbonyArtWorkshop: So I do have new bowels always approach us. I do like to put them, I kind of call it the Ricardo Cindy's bootcamp. I try to do like a small shoot with them before just to get them comfortable with posing, get them comfortable with, you know, being in that environment. Kind of making sure, obviously a little betting them a little bit, making sure they are, who they say are, their ideas are correct. 

Everything like that before we even work at all, you know, because models that don't have a portfolio don't have any other work to show. There's no guarantee that, you know, you're going to show up. There's no guarantee that. And so. We get a little bit of skin in the game with them. So we usually, I usually set up like live streams, live like virtual workshops with them where I that's, how, what I call the live streams. 

And that allows us to have like a one-off one-on-one photo shoot or photo shoot with a guest photographer and kind of build a little bit of a portfolio of stuff with them first. So that they're. Used to it. And obviously if they're used to doing posing nude we get them used to doing that, to show them that, Hey, you're not just going to, you know, sit there and pose like that. 

You know, you're going to do artistic poses when it teach you what to do and how to, you know, how to pose and things of that nature. So I like to put you know, put them in that position to kinda grow first a little bit and work with us a little bit before we put them into an. But if a motto has a little bit more experience, we definitely just throw them right. 

In. A lot of them have done power. Yeah. 

We throw them right in and they cause a lot of them like they like, especially the ones that done power suits before they know exactly. And that's what they want. Like, like Amber she's like really experienced Alyssa, extremely experienced, probably shoots every weekend. You have a faith who shoots a lot. She she's, she throws her own workshops for models. Like she's very, very experienced, you know, so we have a different range of models. Like I said, the new models we want to kind of get used to it, but really the super experienced models, especially in the you know, we're going to have like a few events with pinup models that are dead, that have already worked with. 

Photographers and things like that. And then networks and kind of go from there with it.  

[00:48:23] Matthew Holliday: Probably don't want to throw a pretty new model and was a bunch of different gender, a bunch of different photographers. You didn't know where to look. 

[00:48:30] EbonyArtWorkshop: Absolutely. Absolutely. So we got to kind of teach them that and also, and it also allows us to a little bit of a vetting process because. I get to know your ride ability. I know, Hey, you know your communication because that's a big factor in this. You know, we want to have models that are active in the community, not just, Hey, we're going to pay you a little bit to come through some, some suits and photos and, and that'd be that, you know, that's not what.  

[00:48:54] Matthew Holliday: So we talked a little bit about pricing. You mentioned they run runs. What what'd you say between 125 and 175 for shoot. 

[00:49:01] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah, so a hundred twenty five hundred seventy five members saved $20 every time they come to an event for life. So once you become a member, you, you know, that's paying one time full price, you pretty much get $20 off. Any event coming up, I usually Sue to shoot. 

an email. So our email list and give discounts actively and allow also for our, you know, photographers to be able to understand that, okay, listen, this is the pricing, you know, but again, Patrion members, they save $50. 

So that's like a huge, this deep,  

[00:49:37] Matthew Holliday: All right. That was going to be my next question is how did you become a member? 

[00:49:41] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah, So yeah, so Patrion, you can sort of, so if you want to become a member without becoming, going into in a workshop, like let's say you have a workshop coming up and I want to be a member before you joined the virtual membership on Patrion. And pretty much that gives you between 25 and $50 off a ticket. 

Once you're on Patrion and with access to that Patriot and you kind of get an extension. Archive of a lot of photos behind the scenes, you get the access to the live streams, and also you get to come to all the events for, like I said, 25 to $50 off. So pretty much you're looking at the lowest ticket price being almost like 90 bucks to come shoot for two and a half hours, two models unlimited. 

It's almost a no brainer ticket right there. And we also.  

[00:50:26] Matthew Holliday: ridiculous. 

[00:50:27] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. And you also have a a hundred dollars a month where if you'd become a Patrion member for a hundred dollars a month, you come to all the fence stump, all, you know, all two or three events we throw every month. No, you know, no, no door fee or anything like that. 

You just come in and shoot. That's it. So for the a hundred dollars a month, patriotic here.  

[00:50:46] Matthew Holliday: Gotcha. Yeah, that sounds like. So we've talked a little bit about the price of the venue that you're renting to the models get there normally hourly. Or do you have, do you typically have like a negotiated rate where, you know, we'll feature you in so many workshops and your hourly is this instead? 

[00:51:02] EbonyArtWorkshop: Yeah. So we will, we do is we pay a flat rate to the models. So the models can, you know, they do make money for coming for the, the group session. And then with the one-on-ones they are booked for paid paid. You know, for, you know, obviously a deep discount on what their user rate is because it's only for, you know, within the workshop, but They're paid directly by them. 

Photographers for those, you know, for those one-on-one sessions of shooting. 

[00:51:28] Matthew Holliday: They're able to, they get, they get that flat rate for the shoot and then they get a couple more hours of one-on-one time. Usually. Is that how that works? 

[00:51:36] EbonyArtWorkshop: Absolutely. Model can shoot up to about, I think four times 4, 4, 4 of any of those slots. So they can through to 30 minutes slides and then two 15 minutes slots is about an hour and a half of solo shooting after you know, as directly after the shoot and pretty much that gives a model almost about almost a lecture, a hundred to $200 an hour. 

Our members are heavy tempers. They're like, they love the models. They'll. You know, put money on top of that. So it's pretty much, you know, You know, just something there that set the baseline base rate. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's worth the models, time, the photographers get what, you know, what they paid for. 

Everybody leaves happy, not like I said, that's something that I, you know, I like about now with this event, I've had very little complaints from models, very little complaints from photographers. And when they are complaints, I handle them 1, 2, 3, and you know, that's. To be in this field and really not have to deal with much issues. 

You know, that's a good thing.  

[00:52:38] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. True that. All right. So it looks like we're just about out of time. Is there anything else that you want to hit before we close this down? 

[00:52:45] EbonyArtWorkshop: One thing. So I want to cover really quick about the video. Very important. We do allow video during our, you know, either one-on-one session or during our shooting clearly with laundry. We don't want any videos floating around of models without any clothing. You know, definitely during the lingerie, those, you know, those new videos that you guys seeing on, on your feeds with Glen models, with you know, with models you know, really, really dope, you know, real content for Instagram rails. 

I think that's something that all workshops that you guys are hearing me. We should all add it. I don't care. Like I'm not super competitive, but I will say we do a lot with, at our workshop simply because the algorithm is changing on Instagram. 

[00:53:28] Matthew Holliday: Yeah. 

[00:53:29] EbonyArtWorkshop: You know, there's the behind the scenes, video and video of models, Glen you know, a really good person that does it is, you know, so, one of our good followers, you know, he, he does a lot of good plan, but he's been doing it from day one. 

So I always kept him in mind with that. So I'm like, okay, you know what? I should allow them to do video as long as it's doing the laundry, as long as it's tasteful and. It allows them to be able to keep up with the algorithm. I mean, Instagram is changing every day and Instagram, literally right now, certain feeds are only, you know, you're not seeing your regular photography anymore. 

You're seeing video and then you might see a V you know, photography here and there. So I'm keeping that conscious within our environment and making sure that, you know, photographers can come and shoot video. And some type of clam video with them models that also that runs into Patriot on like, that's a good thing about our patriarch. 

And so we allow we're going to have a big, big announcement coming where we're going to start having a lot more 4k video at least once a week, a video going out of some glam stuff and some you know, NSFW. So realistically and that's, and that's w M BTS more 4k video. So we have a lot of stuff coming to the Patrion that I think is going to be a lot more valuable stuff that you can't see on Instagram BTS. 

You can't see on Instagram. Yeah. 

build that. Yeah. 

Build that community and also keep, it tastes the same school, but have fun with it to allow that, that, to have a place to live because there's some, you know, we have, we've been making sure we built, built content so that, you know, it can make you feel like you're there. 

You know, we want photographers other photographers and, or, you know, let's say you're a photographer in Africa and you can't come here, but you would want to see what the experience of behind the scenes of shooting at a workshop. You know, you can come and celebrate with us on Patriots. So that's something that we're definitely going to be adding to the patron. 

So,  

[00:55:25] Matthew Holliday: No, that's definitely cool. I speaking to somebody who's only been to one workshop. Well, when I guess meet up, it wasn't really a workshop, but yeah, these things are kind of a black box from people looking on the outside, looking in. 

[00:55:37] EbonyArtWorkshop: absolutely.  

[00:55:39] Matthew Holliday: Alright, awesome. So that about does us where can everyone find you online if they want to connect with you after they hear the. 

[00:55:46] EbonyArtWorkshop: All right. So it's going to be at Ebony art workshop on Instagram, on com and it'll be empty art workshop, pretty much anywhere event, bright every hour workshop. If you want to come to an event, you can come to go, just visit Ebony art workshop.com and pretty much you'll be able to go directly to booking events. 

There on the page. We are doing the New York city area and we are going to be doing a collaboration in DC and in somewhere in Maryland with the upcoming photo house, you know, in the next couple of months kind of expanding and kind of doing things a little bit. Oh all over the. 

east coast though. 

I'll keep a look out for that. And also we just don't do workshops in person workshops. We do virtual workshops with certain models. So keep a look on our feed for that. That's a part of our Patriot on membership as well. And sometimes we do some on Instagram live. So people look up.  

[00:56:40] Matthew Holliday: Yeah, no, I do like your the way you got your link tree set up with the, a ticket Sam coming to events and everything. It's nice. 

[00:56:46] EbonyArtWorkshop: Thank you. Yes. So thank you.  

[00:56:49] Matthew Holliday: All right. And with that, we are done. Check us out@thensfwphotographypodcast.com on Twitter. As at NSFW photography, Instagram at the NSFW photography podcast, and subscribe on your favorite podcast.